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The New Berliner Weisse Thread

fermenting grains ingredients

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#1 miccullen

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:46 AM

I am thinking of making my first ever sour beer this summer, and have decided upon Berliner as my first.Lets get the braintrust cranking on the specifics top to bottom of a good honest Berliner.Go!
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#2 BlKtRe

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:55 AM

I've used the blends but feel using lacto delbrieki first pitching and holding around 90* for a few days first then add a portion of a neutral sac strain when the temp drops naturally then to give it a little roundness pitch a very small amount of brett b then age. This is a decent fermentation schedule. I typically use glass.Malt and type of mash schedule plays as well. I will always use acid malt for Ph alone. A step mash or even a decoction can be used. A no boil or a 5 minute boil with some aged low alpha hops using no more than 20 total AA's or even way less. Shooting for a 3-3.5% abv beer.This should start it.

Edited by BlKtRe, 20 April 2012 - 10:56 AM.

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#3 Humperdink

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:02 AM

How long do you typically age this brew?
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#4 Genesee Ted

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:07 AM

They are meant to be consumed young, but they tend to keep alright for 6 months or so.Another option you have with a Berliner Weisse is no boil. Just run off directly into a carboy and add a neutral yeast.I have had some awesome homebrewed Berliners. Some people use a little bit of unmalted or quick oats for mouthfeel as well.

#5 Humperdink

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:12 AM

I heard of no boil... This may be a great way for me to 1) use my glass carboys, 2) not take up space in the fermentation chamber, 3) get in a super fast brewday, and 4) finally get a sour beer on tap. I meant to have a brett on tap by Fall, but I don't think I have the time now.
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#6 Humperdink

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:13 AM

What about oxygen exposure? Is this something like brett beers that you don't want them exposed tom uch o2 or you'll get more acetobactor?
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#7 Genesee Ted

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:16 AM

You probably could get away without oxygen, being as it is not a very big beer. The reason for the no boil is because the grain has lactobaccillus on it. That is why when done properly, these beers have a yogurt like tang to them.

#8 HVB

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:18 AM

I've used the blends but feel using lacto delbrieki first pitching and holding around 90* for a few days first then add a portion of a neutral sac strain when the temp drops naturally then to give it a little roundness pitch a very small amount of brett b then age. This is a decent fermentation schedule. I typically use glass.

This is the way I have done it before and think it works real well. I am curious to hear opinions on sour mashing vs pitching the lacto. I have had both versions and I have found the ones with a pure lacto to be more pleasing to me.I actualy have one on tap right now from August of 2009 that I keg in July 2010. Still drinking great. I need to get another one started.
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#9 Humperdink

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:22 AM

You probably could get away without oxygen, being as it is not a very big beer. The reason for the no boil is because the grain has lactobaccillus on it. That is why when done properly, these beers have a yogurt like tang to them.

Right, I meant when letting them sour in the fermenter. Using glass since it's non oxygen permeable, but also limiting the head space exposed to o2 until some sort of pellicle forms to act as a barrier was my jist.
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#10 Humperdink

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:24 AM

is the fermentation time comparable to a sac yeast? Longer? large krausen? Just a pellicle? No pellicle?
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#11 BlKtRe

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:36 AM

Erred. I try and stay away from sour mashing because I feel its cheating. But its in my mix to try.I never get much krausen. When I do the pitch rate on the sac is typically less than when doing a all sac ale or lager so the krausen is usually subdued. Then later in the aging a small pellicle can form. Aging is usually 3-5 months at room temp.
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#12 Humperdink

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:38 AM

Erred. I try and stay away from sour mashing because I feel its cheating. But its in my mix to try.I never get much krausen. When I do the pitch rate on the sac is typically less than when doing a all sac ale or lager so the krausen is usually subdued. Then later in the aging a small pellicle can form. Aging is usually 3-5 months at room temp.

What's the purpose of the sac? Speed the terminal gravity?
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#13 HVB

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:54 AM

Here is something I found on my computer. I donot do the 60-90 minute boil. I just do 15 minutes and chilled. I will pitch the Lacto and let go for 4-5 days then add half a pack of S-05.Not sure where I got this from but I want to say one of the yeast suppliers website.Berliner WeisseBerliner weisse brewing techniques are similar to most German brewing techniques. The main difference is decoction mashing is not used to achieve the temperature steps in the mash. Modern Berliner weisse breweries now use multiple step infusion mashes. None of the brewing techniques for this brew are necessarily done to promote the special microorganisms used to produce this style, except for temperature control during fermentation. If fermentation temperature exceeds 68oF, the Lactobacillus may produce too much acid too quickly and retard the performance of the ale yeast. The following is an example of the brewing techniques used for Berliner weisse.Malt Bill
  • Malted Wheat 50-70%
  • Light malted barley 30-50%
  • No Specialty Malts
Mashing
  • Mash in all malts at 122°F and rest for 30 minutes.
  • Heat mash to 144°F and rest for 15 minutes.
  • Heat mash to 149°F and rest for 20 minutes.
  • Heat mash to 162°F and rest for 15 minutes.
  • Heat mash to 172°F and rest for 10 minutes.
  • Sparge at 172°F until kettle is full (1.022-1.028 Specific gravity)
Boiling
  • Boil 60-90 minutes. Add hops (German variety such as Hallertauer or Perle) at the beginning and end of the boil to achieve 4-6 IBUs.
  • Cool wort to 60°F.
Fermentation
  • Pitch with combined culture.
    • Alt or Kolsch ale yeast (Wyeast 1007 or 2565 respectively)
    • Lactobacillus (Wyeast 5335)
    • 5 parts yeast : 1 part bacteria
  • Ferment consistently at 60 degrees for 4-6 days.
Bottling
  • Prime with fresh wort (10% saved wort from the main brew) and new Lactobacillus culture. Adding more bacteria is not necessary, but will help to speed the lactic acid production.
  • Store at approximately 60oF for 3-18 months (until desired lactic acid level is achieved).

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#14 BlKtRe

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:32 PM

I agree that fermentation is everything with Berliner Weisse. I'm just not sold on the hot side of what was posted.Btw, I tried 4-5 Berliner's at GABF last year. None of them held a candle to the home brewed versions I've had within my club. All were no boils or 5 min boils, stacked yeast blends, or 100% lacto pitches. No clue on how the ones at the fest were handled.

Edited by BlKtRe, 20 April 2012 - 12:33 PM.

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#15 MtnBrewer

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:57 PM

Right, I meant when letting them sour in the fermenter. Using glass since it's non oxygen permeable, but also limiting the head space exposed to o2 until some sort of pellicle forms to act as a barrier was my jist.

You're doing a closed fermentation right? So there shouldn't be any O2.

#16 Humperdink

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:58 PM

You're doing a closed fermentation right? So there shouldn't be any O2.

Something i heard was to try and reduce the amount of surface area not touching glass. I agree it seems like it should be a moot point, but why else would it be brought up?
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#17 MtnBrewer

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 12:59 PM

Something i heard was to try and reduce the amount of surface area not touching glass. I agree it seems like it should be a moot point, but why else would it be brought up?

What's the purpose of that?

#18 Humperdink

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:02 PM

Minimize oxygen contact. I understand it's closed and blanketed with CO2, just repeating what I heard and looking for input.
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#19 BlKtRe

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:03 PM

What's the purpose of that?

o2 Id think. Weve been messing around with different headspaces in our barrels too. Big headspace hasn't seemed to have an effect from what we can tell.
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#20 MtnBrewer

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:05 PM

But there isn't any O2 in a carboy. In a barrel sure but not a glass carboy.



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