156 replies to this topic

[denny]

This latest batch is fermenting nicely and I have great expectations for it.  The wort going into the fermenter was very clear.  Let me ask this:  If the wort going into the fermenter was clear but the beer ends up cloudy does that mean that the issue could only be from the fermentation point or onward?  IOW, my mash temp and pH were fine, my crush was fine, my boil was fine and everything that happened prior to the wort going into fermenter was fine... is that reasonable?  If so, other than contamination, what else would create cloudiness at that point?  All of these beers went into the fermenter clear so I'll guess my assumption is incorrect and it could still be something off earlier in the process. 

 

There is no correlation between clarity of wort and clarity of the finished beer.

[Bklmt2000]

There is no correlation between clarity of wort and clarity of the finished beer.

 

I've had (many) batches of beer go into the primary or keg that were less (sometimes, way less) than clear, but dropped bright in the fermenter/keg, as I'd wager many of us here in this forum have experienced.

 

What's weird (IMO) is seeing reduced clarity as the beer progresses from brewday -> fermenter -> keg/bottle -> glass.

[MyaCullen]

Ken, has the LODO stuff really done anything for you? Especially the pre poil stuff.

[positiveContact]

I've had (many) batches of beer go into the primary or keg that were less (sometimes, way less) than clear, but dropped bright in the fermenter/keg, as I'd wager many of us here in this forum have experienced.

 

What's weird (IMO) is seeing reduced clarity as the beer progresses from brewday -> fermenter -> keg/bottle -> glass.

 

same here.  I only use a filter for my kettle hops b/c they'd clog up my pickup tube.  otherwise EVERYTHING goes into the primary.  trub, hop debris, whatever else is in there, it all goes.

[MyaCullen]

same here.  I only use a filter for my kettle hops b/c they'd clog up my pickup tube.  otherwise EVERYTHING goes into the primary.  trub, hop debris, whatever else is in there, it all goes.

pretty much this

[Bklmt2000]

One technique that helped me a lot w/ clarity was when I started using 2 5-gal nylon mesh paint strainer bags (double-bagged) in my primary (Ale Pail) fermenters, about 10 years back.

 

Once the wort is chilled, I manually dump my kettle straight into the primary, through the strainer bags, then lift the bags out to drain.  Whatever fine sediment that makes it through seems to settle out nicely in the primary, and the bags do a good job of filtering out hops (pellet and whole), trub, etc.

 

Not sure this would align w/ the low O2 methods Ken uses, but it's another tool in the toolbox for clear(er) beer.

[positiveContact]

One technique that helped me a lot w/ clarity was when I started using 2 5-gal nylon mesh paint strainer bags (double-bagged) in my primary (Ale Pail) fermenters, about 10 years back.

Once the wort is chilled, I manually dump my kettle straight into the primary, through the strainer bags, then lift the bags out to drain. Whatever fine sediment that makes it through seems to settle out nicely in the primary, and the bags do a good job of filtering out hops (pellet and whole), trub, etc.

Not sure this would align w/ the low O2 methods Ken uses, but it's another tool in the toolbox for clear(er) beer.

I used to do that and now that I don't clarity had not suffered.

[Big Nake]

Ken, has the LODO stuff really done anything for you? Especially the pre poil stuff.

There is a deeper and richer malt character and I feel like there is better head formation and stability.  The preboil steps seem to make a big difference in color as well.  I have made some posts about beers with and without the LO steps and the LO beers have a much more pale color to them.  The biggest issues for me have been proper carbonation (from spunding) and clarity.  

[Big Nake]

There is no correlation between clarity of wort and clarity of the finished beer.

In that case, what might happen in the primary that would cause cloudy beer... aside from a contamination?  Also, in some of these cloudy beer cases the yeast was 2278 which is a HIGH floccer?  

[HVB]

I wonder if the yeast /sugar mix may be part of this. No idea why and I know that it is early in the process but still worth a thought. Easy enough to leave it out on a brewday.

[Big Nake]

I wonder if the yeast /sugar mix may be part of this. No idea why and I know that it is early in the process but still worth a thought. Easy enough to leave it out on a brewday.

I mentioned that earlier and Pete said that he does the same thing (yeast + sugar) and his beers are clear.  It's very strange and I have to say that it has shaken my confidence in brewing.  Things to eliminate on future batches might be:  The mash cap and the trifecta mix although I would keep the BTB because I had many, many 30m boil beers with BTB that came out very clear.   

[MyaCullen]

Is there anything that might be causing your kegged beer to get stirred up? a shaky fridge compressor? etc?

 

One thing I did years ago was to cut 1.25" off of my dip tubes, it does seem to help.

[Big Nake]

Is there anything that might be causing your kegged beer to get stirred up? a shaky fridge compressor? etc?
 
One thing I did years ago was to cut 1.25" off of my dip tubes, it does seem to help.

No, nothing like that. All of my equipment is working and has been here for a long time. Whatever it is, it's relatively new (like in the last 2ish years which is when I switched to LO steps) and very elusive.  Also, my kegs go into an "on-deck" fridge first and then one of two smaller draft fridges... all working properly.  

[MyaCullen]

maybe invest in a plate filter then

[HVB]

maybe invest in a plate filter then

Brings back nightmares. I had one and what a pita it was.

[Big Nake]

maybe invest in a plate filter then

 

Brings back nightmares. I had one and what a pita it was.

I used to make a lot of clear beer.  Something is different or something new was introduced that is causing it.  Over the weekend I checked my pH meter as well.  It was slightly off and I cleaned and calibrated it but it was just slightly off... something that naturally happens and nothing that would cause this.  This latest batch will be a good test.  It got a good, quick start, fermented quickly and is now finishing up.  I used 1099 which is a high floccer.  More to come.  Thanks for the replies guys.  

[denny]

In that case, what might happen in the primary that would cause cloudy beer... aside from a contamination?  Also, in some of these cloudy beer cases the yeast was 2278 which is a HIGH floccer?  

 

So hard to say, as this whole thread proves.  Forgive me if some of this has been covered....possible causes could be different lots of malts, variations in yeast health, thermometer calibration (very low effect unless it's way off),

 

Brings back nightmares. I had one and what a pita it was.

 

I gave mine away

No, nothing like that. All of my equipment is working and has been here for a long time. Whatever it is, it's relatively new (like in the last 2ish years which is when I switched to LO steps) and very elusive.  Also, my kegs go into an "on-deck" fridge first and then one of two smaller draft fridges... all working properly.  

 

Has this happened to all your LO beers?  Doesn't seem like it or you would have mentioned it later.  When I encounter a situation like this, I go back to doing whatever I did before the problem. 

[Big Nake]

Has this happened to all your LO beers?  Doesn't seem like it or you would have mentioned it later.  When I encounter a situation like this, I go back to doing whatever I did before the problem. 

It's tricky because the LO steps (if I were following them religiously) would not allow any finings.  The thought was that if you got clear wort into the fermenter (no trub!) that clarity would come... period.  Many of my LO beers without gel came out somewhat cloudy.  Eventually I was doing the LO steps but instead of spunding and not using finings I was using gel and force-carbing and those beers have not been clear.  In fact, some of them have been a terribly cloudy mess.  Among the things that I'm doing that could have a finger pointed at them:  Using this mash cap that is wrapped in foil.  Could there be some reaction between the wort and the foil?  Using SMB and AA in the mash as an O2 scavenger.  Absolutely no idea if that could cause clarity issues or not but it's been used in the same timeline as the cloudy beers.  Also, using yeast + sugar in the strike water to lower O2.  I mentioned this earlier and Pete is doing this without issue.  On my next three beers I could eliminate the mash cap, then eliminate the SMB + AA and finally eliminate the yeast + sugar.  The only other thing I'm doing that would be considered LO is purging the keg with the natural CO2 from fermentation and also doing a closed transfer from fermenter to keg and I can't see that causing cloudiness.  Any additional thoughts or AHA! moments would be great.  I'll keep updating this as I try things.  The latest batch that I made last week had no real changes except that I used a new blob of yeast (1099)... otherwise the other steps were all used.  

[positiveContact]

have you been monitoring your mash pH?

[Big Nake]

Over the weekend I checked my pH meter as well.  It was slightly off and I cleaned and calibrated it but it was just slightly off... something that naturally happens and nothing that would cause this.