663 replies to this topic

[neddles]

Another vote to see what B2000 came up with as well. According to the spec sheet the malts are just 2-row and C60 and the hops are Cascade and Mt. Hood. A description on their website suggests that there are "dry hop flavors" so it stands to reason that they dry hopped it. ABV is 5.8% and IBU 30. My memory of the color (dark gold) and flavor tell me that there probably isn't more than the equivalent of 6-8oz of C60 for a 5 gallon batch. Were it mine I'd probably hit it with 2124 or 34/70. 

[Poptop]

Do you recall if it was very Cascade'y or was that a more subtle addition?

[Big Nake]

The Cascade hops don't really hit you with citrus like you might find in a pale ale. I also agree with neddles that the C60 must be relatively low because the beer *IS* gold-colored. I remember listening to a podcast with Denny and maybe Jamil Z. comparing Ayinger Jahrhundert Dortmunder/Export Helles to Great Lakes Dortmunder Gold. The comparison was not kind to GLDG but I consider that to be an unfair comparison. If you look at it as a dort you might think it's not really correct but if you just look at it as a domestic gold lager, it's pretty nice. It's one reason I wish American breweries wouldn't describe their beer as one thing when they're really not that thing. Someone will go into the tasting of the beer with a preconceived idea when you could just call it a LAGER or GOLD LAGER or whatever and that way the person drinking it is coming into it with a blank canvas and will probably be more open-minded about it.

[Bklmt2000]

Another vote to see what B2000 came up with as well. According to the spec sheet the malts are just 2-row and C60 and the hops are Cascade and Mt. Hood. A description on their website suggests that there are "dry hop flavors" so it stands to reason that they dry hopped it. ABV is 5.8% and IBU 30. My memory of the color (dark gold) and flavor tell me that there probably isn't more than the equivalent of 6-8oz of C60 for a 5 gallon batch. Were it mine I'd probably hit it with 2124 or 34/70. 

 

Do you recall if it was very Cascade'y or was that a more subtle addition?

 

The Cascade hops don't really hit you with citrus like you might find in a pale ale. I also agree with neddles that the C60 must be relatively low because the beer *IS* gold-colored. I remember listening to a podcast with Denny and maybe Jamil Z. comparing Ayinger Jahrhundert Dortmunder/Export Helles to Great Lakes Dortmunder Gold. The comparison was not kind to GLDG but I consider that to be an unfair comparison. If you look at it as a dort you might think it's not really correct but if you just look at it as a domestic gold lager, it's pretty nice. It's one reason I wish American breweries wouldn't describe their beer as one thing when they're really not that thing. Someone will go into the tasting of the beer with a preconceived idea when you could just call it a LAGER or GOLD LAGER or whatever and that way the person drinking it is coming into it with a blank canvas and will probably be more open-minded about it.

 

Here's my take on Great Lakes' Dort:

 

When I've brewed it (and also tasted it), I get a very subtle Cascade character, which IMO is due to the use of Cascade as the primary bittering hop.  As Brother Ken alluded to above, the Cascade character is nothing like what you'd encounter in a pale ale, a la SNPA.

 

The flavor/aroma additions are Mt. Hood, which I pick up as being reminsicent of a good German-made lager, but still is unmistakably American.  Up until 2-3 years ago, GLBC used to use Hallertau as the flavor/aroma additions, but currently uses Mt. Hood.

 

When I make the beer, I use 8 oz of C-60, and when combined with a grist of mostly Pils + 8 oz of wheat (standard in my of my beers), I get a medium-gold color out of the beer, in the 6-7 SRM range.  If I go 50/50 Pils/Munich instead of all Pils, I get a dark gold color in the 9-10-ish SRM range.  Not quite (IMO) amber, but definitely darker than a pilsner.

 

Here is my recipe for said beer:  https://brews-bros.c...t-a-dortmunder/ (note: it's 50/50 pils to munich; 100% pils is also great).

 

When I have the ingredients on hand and a healthy pitch of 34/70 at the ready, this beer is a regular in my lineup. 

 

Is it a traditional Dort? Nope.  Is it meant to be one?  I have no idea, but I consider it a damn tasty beer.

[Big Nake]

Yeah, using a light bittering addition of Cascade should limit the citrus.  Remember too that Yuengling uses Cascade and Cluster but the hopping is so low that you don't really get any specific hop character from those hops.  Also, I consider Mt. Hood to be a great, clean American hop that could be used in some very noble-specific applications and hit a home run.  When fresh, Mt. Hood could easily be used in a helles, pilsner, vienna, festbier, etc. without issue and that goes for a lot of other American hops like Santiam, Liberty, Crystal and Ultra.  I've seen a number of American-made Kolsch beers made with Santiam or Mt. Hood.  The bottom line is good beer is good beer... that needs to be on a t-shirt or something. 

[Bklmt2000]

Yeah, using a light bittering addition of Cascade should limit the citrus.  Remember too that Yuengling uses Cascade and Cluster but the hopping is so low that you don't really get any specific hop character from those hops.  Also, I consider Mt. Hood to be a great, clean American hop that could be used in some very noble-specific applications and hit a home run.  When fresh, Mt. Hood could easily be used in a helles, pilsner, vienna, festbier, etc. without issue and that goes for a lot of other American hops like Santiam, Liberty, Crystal and Ultra.  I've seen a number of American-made Kolsch beers made with Santiam or Mt. Hood.  The bottom line is good beer is good beer... that needs to be on a t-shirt or something. 

 

#IfYogiBerraWereABeerDrinker

[Poptop]

Bklmt2K, thanks for the recipe as well as all the great feedback from all you's guys

[Bklmt2000]

Bklmt2K, thanks for the recipe as well as all the great feedback from all you's guys

 

Welcome.  If you make that beer, let me/us know how it turns out.

[Big Nake]

Oh, I meant to ask... does anyone get the 34/70 (2124) character from this beer?  I was just curious about the proper yeast to use to try to get close to GLDG.  It's been awhile since I had it but I seem to recall it being more in the 2308 zip code (a Munich twist with a malty character but less of that 2124/Bayern 'bright' character).  

[Poptop]

Welcome.  If you make that beer, let me/us know how it turns out.

I'll keep you posted. My next up with be Fathers Day weekend at this rate ;( and your recipe will start the wheels turning.

[Bklmt2000]

Oh, I meant to ask... does anyone get the 34/70 (2124) character from this beer?  I was just curious about the proper yeast to use to try to get close to GLDG.  It's been awhile since I had it but I seem to recall it being more in the 2308 zip code (a Munich twist with a malty character but less of that 2124/Bayern 'bright' character).  

 

One data point:  my go-to lager yeast is 34/70.

 

When I make a batch of GLBC Dortmunder, and compare it to the real thing, (if I've made the beer properly) I can't tell the commercial and HB versions apart.

[Big Nake]

One data point:  my go-to lager yeast is 34/70.

 

When I make a batch of GLBC Dortmunder, and compare it to the real thing, (if I've made the beer properly) I can't tell the commercial and HB versions apart.

Okay, interesting.  If 34/70 is really 2124 then you and I use A LOT of the same yeast.  2124 is probably the lager yeast I've used more than any other.  I think I had a debit card where I set the pin to 2124.    It has a very unique character (IMO) and I can often pick it out in commercial beers.

[Bklmt2000]

Okay, interesting.  If 34/70 is really 2124 then you and I use A LOT of the same yeast.  2124 is probably the lager yeast I've used more than any other.  I think I had a debit card where I set the pin to 2124.    It has a very unique character (IMO) and I can often pick it out in commercial beers.

 

I've used both 34/70 and 2124 over the years, and to my taste, I can't tell between them. 

 

For a beer where 2124 is preferred and 34/70 is all that is available, (say, a starter went bad, the LHBS is out of 2124 (the horror!), etc.), then I would recommend 34/70 without reservation.

 

Besides using it for my GLBC Dort clone and various other lagers, it also does nice things to a batch of your own Home Run Red.  Ask me how I know.

[Big Nake]

I've used both 34/70 and 2124 over the years, and to my taste, I can't tell between them. 

 

For a beer where 2124 is preferred and 34/70 is all that is available, (say, a starter went bad, the LHBS is out of 2124 (the horror!), etc.), then I would recommend 34/70 without reservation.

 

Besides using it for my GLBC Dort clone and various other lagers, it also does nice things to a batch of your own Home Run Red.  Ask me how I know.

Oh yeah, 2124 can be used for just about any lager without issue.  Helles, pilsner, festbier, vienna, amber lager, American lager, red lager, dark lager, etc.  Such good stuff.  

[jayb151]

I've used both 34/70 and 2124 over the years...

 

What temps do you ferment at? I tried 34/70 closer to ale temps and was pretty unimpressed, but I imagine that if I could get it down to lager temps it would have been a lot better. Thanks!

[Bklmt2000]

What temps do you ferment at? I tried 34/70 closer to ale temps and was pretty unimpressed, but I imagine that if I could get it down to lager temps it would have been a lot better. Thanks!

 

Most of my lagers w/ 34/70 fermented between 55-60°F.  The resulting beers are always clean (little to no esters), and I find 34/70 floccs reliably well.  I still use Biofine in the keg.

[Big Nake]

Does 34/70 have the same wide temp range that 2124 does?

[Bklmt2000]

Does 34/70 have the same wide temp range that 2124 does?

 

Yes, it does.  I've used it at 68° and at 50° (when pitching a larger starter), and it works well at both warm and cold temps.

[Big Nake]

I seem to remember 2124 being something like 48-54° but then something like 72-76° or some crazy thing.  I never used it warmer but it's interesting to know you could use it that way.

[Bklmt2000]

I seem to remember 2124 being something like 48-54° but then something like 72-76° or some crazy thing.  I never used it warmer but it's interesting to know you could use it that way.

 

When I first used it as an ale yeast (fermented around 68°); I expected an estery mess, but instead I got a good, clean IPA.  Color me surprised, but pleasantly so.

 

It was an experiment, sure, but it was nice to know that I could use 34/70 for ales, especially in a pinch if, for some reason my on-deck ale yeast was no good (contaminated, too old, etc.).