313 replies to this topic

[positiveContact]

If the keg was flushed with co2 why would you need to scub o2?  It may be in the paper, I will go back and look.

 

I guess if there was any in the headspace of the fermentor or introduced during racking?

 

I've occasionally considered racking towards the end of fermentation and putting a spunding valve on the gas post.  what has stopped me is that wouldn't allow me to crash the beer prior to racking to keg.  I suspect I'd be working through a lot of cloudy beer before I got to the clear stuff.

[HVB]

I guess if there was any in the headspace of the fermentor or introduced during racking?

 

I've occasionally considered racking towards the end of fermentation and putting a spunding valve on the gas post.  what has stopped me is that wouldn't allow me to crash the beer prior to racking to keg.  I suspect I'd be working through a lot of cloudy beer before I got to the clear stuff.

I re-read that section and see why they want to scrub the CO2.

 

I have added a spunding valve to a few of my fermenting beers to help start carbonating but this has all been done in the primary.  I will try moving a beer to a keg and trying this method.  I have the helles and ale fermenting but I think both may be past the point right now to try  spunding.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

Has anyone had success with spunding valves? I set up a few to hook up to the gas connection on corny kegs. They didn't open at the set pressure.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Has anyone had success with spunding valves? I set up a few to hook up to the gas connection on corny kegs. They didn't open at the set pressure.

 

Probably because they aren't very accurate in their release pressure. Also, it's not like a switch, it will barely open unless you completely blow past the pressure setting (at least that's how it should work).

[denny]

Yeah but does PU have "it"? And obligatory… they're not German!

 

FWIW, when Annie Johnson won PU's Master Homebrewer award, their head brewer told her that her beer made him feel like he was at home.  She used neither SMB nor lodo techniques.  I guess he didn't realize just how bad her and his beers are.

I'm just being open-minded. I know that I do NOT know everything about brewing and that there is always something to learn. Maybe this is one of those things. Maybe it's not.

 

Ken, I fell the same way...as Jethro Gump used to say, "The more I know about beer, the more I know I need to know more about beer".  That's my philosophy also.  But I have to say that paper is a lot of speculation with little explanation or evidence.

Not to jump on these guys but Brandon posted a few posts but hasn't talked about triangle testing though asked. He seemed to sign up to defend their findings which I understand but be open to things which I doubt their group will be if not agreeing with them. He'll just send out a bottle to someone like Ken who probably brews more in that style than anyone else on here to try. I would like to hear Kens thoughts on that

 

Again, Marshall has offered to help them set up documented triangle tests.  No response to his offer yet.

[Big Nake]

Ken, I fell the same way...as Jethro Gump used to say, "The more I know about beer, the more I know I need to know more about beer".  That's my philosophy also.  But I have to say that paper is a lot of speculation with little explanation or evidence.

Well, I have no formal brewing training and I am not a very scientific person so I try to look at everything [that I have not had experience with] as a possible tool for making better beer. If I try something and it appears that it has no benefit, then I either did it wrong or it just has no benefit that I can see. Then I move on. Could my current beers be a "90" on a scale from 1 to 100 and some tweak here or there make them a 95 or higher? I don't know. But I am open to the idea of it.

[positiveContact]

I just realized - these guys should be using olive oil.

[denny]

So, over on the AHA forum there's pretty much the same discussion going on.  It's evolved into discussing the rules of the German forum and why people can't or don't want to join.  Apparently, you're barred from repeating any info posted there.  Also from posting anything that isn't "scientific" or any "American homebrew dogma" or pretty much anything that I've ever said! 

 

Main Rules

1) Forum topics - Keep discussion on topic as related to a specific forum: German beer brewing, culture, process, ingredients and commercial examples, or bread/travel as appropriate. Please ask the admins to create new topic areas if you think of something that would be useful.

2) Culture - Be careful when discussing and applying American Homebrewing gospel to German brewing. We are open minded and not willing to accept the 'status quo' of American homebrewing convention as the approach that works for brewing German Beer. We've been down that road and tried nearly everything. We are on a quest for reproducing German beer styles. Not "Americanized" versions, not 'close', but authentic and true to style, whatever it takes to do this - have an open mind, but don't quote American brewing dogma. If you are on the same path, join us. If not, this is not the forum for you. This is not a beginner forum.

3) References - Members have gone to great lengths to translate German texts, learn, understand and test German brewing processes. We are particular about what is deemed reliable reference material; essentially, if it wouldn't be taken seriously in a professional or scholarly environment, it won't be taken seriously here. Professional texts and published scientific studies are preferred; books and materials intended solely for homebrewers and/or written by folks without professional or academic credentials are not acceptable sources. We welcome your research and input that moves us all forward, not around in circles.

4) Exchange of knowledge - information posted here is meant to stay here, not be reposted to other forums or online sources. This is a private research and discussion forum, and as such we expect collaboration to occur here and remain here.

5) Our Mission - We are looking for like minded folks to join us on our quest for German brewing excellence. This forum was established to capture and share research among our group. It is not a public/open forum, but we welcome new members and are always seeking folks passionate about brewing German beer, who bring engineering, biology (botany, malting science, microbiology), chemistry and process control knowledge to the group and have a passion to learn and share in our experiments and process development.

Edited by denny, 27 April 2016 - 01:08 PM.

[positiveContact]

6) The Mothership - We have prepared special German Koolaid beer to allow safe passage to German Beer Nirvana.

[positiveContact]

I'm sorry - those rules are fucked.  I'd never want to have anything to do with a place like that.  Maybe they should be called the North Korean Homebrewers Club?

[Big Nake]

To be clear, my only goal is better beer. I don't necessarily care about rules, personalities, inclusion or exclusion or any of that. I care about information as it relates to the glass of beer sitting in front of me. I'm a part of a lot of different forums so that I can gather as much of that information as possible. I email back and forth with people in the US, Europe and Mexico on a regular basis and sometimes I'm providing information and sometimes I'm gathering it. That's all I really care about. How these guys conduct themselves is not really my concern. If there is a backlash to this information based only on how these guys behave or whether their forum rules are unusual (or you won't be accepted as a member), that would be unfortunate. I won't be able to try any of these new procedures for awhile but I plan to check it out. I'll be able to come to my own conclusions after I do some tests.

[denny]

I'm sorry - those rules are ####ed.  I'd never want to have anything to do with a place like that.  Maybe they should be called the North Korean Homebrewers Club?

 

I agree.  At first, I was curious to see how the reached their conclusions.  At this point I want nothing to do with them, even if they're completely correct.

[Big Nake]

I agree.  At first, I was curious to see how the reached their conclusions.  At this point I want nothing to do with them, even if they're completely correct.

So if you got some good information, you would discount it just because of who gave it to you?

[denny]

So if you got some good information, you would discount it just because of who gave it to you?

 

In this case, quite possibly.  But there's no way of knowing if this is good information since they won't allow an open exchange of ideas unless you already agree with them.  And the fact that they don't give a fuck about other homebrewers and the community by preventing the free exchange of info makes me not really care.

[Mya]

In this case, quite possibly.  But there's no way of knowing if this is good information since they won't allow an open exchange of ideas unless you already agree with them.  And the fact that they don't give a #### about other homebrewers and the community by preventing the free exchange of info makes me not really care.

they pretty specifically attack the rest of the home-brew community with the "American Homebrew Dogma" line, If I wanted that level of condescension I'd keep going to my old Homebrew shop (I found a new one)

 

This is supposed to be fun

[denny]

they pretty specifically attack the rest of the home-brew community with the "American Homebrew Dogma" line, If I wanted that level of condescension I'd keep going to my old Homebrew shop (I found a new one)

 

This is supposed to be fun

 

Absolutely Mic. 

[Mya]

I am not opposed to learning how to make better beer, I am opposed to cultish behavior

[Big Nake]

Well, I understand the comments in here. I have gotten into mild skirmishes with guys in that group as well but as Denny mentioned, I'm just not going to get into an argument over brewing, processes or beer in general. At the end of the day, I'm not looking for someone to snuggle with, I'm just looking to exchange some information in the spirit of better beer. That's my only goal.

[Steve Urquell]

I stopped using secondaries awhile ago. The beer would get to 1/2 keg and start tasting bland(4-6mths). They don't change much if at all since racking straight to keg even after a year.

[Big Nake]

I stopped using secondaries awhile ago. The beer would get to 1/2 keg and start tasting bland(4-6mths). They don't change much if at all since racking straight to keg even after a year.

That's good to know and one piece of what I will start looking at. I keep thinking that there must be a way to tackle some of these issues but there are so many stops along the way where you stir, transfer, etc. and that part will be tricky for me. Chils, how do you chill? (that should be on a t-shirt or something)... with an IC? If so, do you stir? When I transfer from kettle to primary, should I skip the strainer and splashing? Sounds like it.