313 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

I've tried some of those processes without finding any difference.  In the letter I received, it was stated that you need to follow every step exactly or it won't work.  Ken, I spent 2 YEARS trying SMB in different stages of the brewing process.  It made absolutely no difference that I could detect.  To me, that says that I either didn't have a problem in the first place, or that if I did the SMB didn't fix it....because the beer was exactly the same.  You should of course try it for yourself and reach your own conclusion.

Something else I just thought of...if it's the sulfites that are making this effective, then potassium metabite ought to work as well as sodium metabite.  Is there any possibility that the sodium itself is causing the flavor change or is it the sulfite?

They have mentioned that they all started with PMB but eventully switched over to SMB. Personally for me... if I tried this technique I would almost be rooting for a situation where I noticed NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL. That would mean I wouldn't have to adapt to the low-O2 process.

[denny]

maybe a bit of salt would make that malt flavor pop?

 

yep.  I'm not sure exactly how much you'd get but it does seem like a load of metabite.

They have mentioned that they all started with PMB but eventully switched over to SMB. Personally for me... if I tried this technique I would almost be rooting for a situation where I noticed NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL. That would mean I wouldn't have to adapt to the low-O2 process.

 

Oh, man, I SO know that feeling!  Ken, have they said why they switched?  Did it seem to make the results change when they did?

Edited by denny, 26 April 2016 - 01:51 PM.

[Big Nake]

Ken, have they said why they switched?  Did it seem to make the results change when they did?

I just asked about that. Do you guys want the link to that forum? You just have to register over there and this discussion is under the RECIPE section.

[denny]

I just asked about that. Do you guys want the link to that forum? You just have to register over there and this discussion is under the RECIPE section.

 

I guarantee you that I wouldn't be allowed to register.

[Big Nake]

I guarantee you that I wouldn't be allowed to register.

I thought you said they wanted to talk with you about it.

Anyway, the PMB/SMB answer is... The difference is potassium is detrimental to mash enzymes (Per Kunze and Narziss). 10mg/l is the limit.

I have no idea about any of that and no reason to doubt it or believe it.

[denny]

I thought you said they wanted to talk with you about it.

Anyway, the PMB/SMB answer is... The difference is potassium is detrimental to mash enzymes (Per Kunze and Narziss). 10mg/l is the limit.

I have no idea about any of that and no reason to doubt it or believe it.

 

Yeah, some of them wanted to talk.  In private.

 

Interesting answer and I have no reason to doubt that is was published info.  So, now the question becomes what kind of sodium load is the metabite adding and is it enough to have an effect on flavor?

[neddles]

Is there any evidence that german breweries are following these low O2 procedures?

(Have not read the paper thoroghly yet.)

[denny]

Is there any evidence that german breweries are following these low O2 procedures?

(Have not read the paper thoroghly yet.)

 

That's been brought up on the AHA forum and so far no one has any evidence it has.  To the contrary, it seems likely that traditional German brewers didn't do any of this and that the R'gebot wouldn't have allowed the sulfites.  Just conjecture, though.

[positiveContact]

also as I mentioned - copper was really common not that long ago.

[Big Nake]

A lot of these questions have been brought up on the forum.  Apparently many German breweries have been setup as low-O2 and many of the old-school copper kettles you see in German breweries have been "relined" with stainless.  Again... I have no idea what's accurate. I do see that NY Brew Supply has a 25' stainless chiller for $39.

[positiveContact]

the original pilsner brewer is still using copper:

 

are you trying to make heads explode?

 

another thing is the "no copper" statement.  don't a lot of European breweries use copper kettles?  or at least very recently did.

 

pilsner urquell has been using copper for quite some time it seems: https://pilsnerurque...le/copper-tanks

[Big Nake]

Yeah, not sure what to say about that. I have never heard of copper being an issue in terms of brewing until now.

[neddles]

the original pilsner brewer is still using copper:

Yeah but does PU have "it"? And obligatory… they're not German!

[cavman]

Well, without flying over to someone's house and trying one of the beers made this way, I don't see how you could be shown that it's true. I have no idea if this low-O2 process makes a difference or not but I'm open-minded and I don't necessarily need these guys to prove it to me. They say it works so it could be worth one batch of low-O2 beer to see if my tastebuds tell me that a beer I make a lot is better with the new procedures in place. I guess I'm envisioning people saying that the world is round. If I see a way to attempt this that doesn't require $500 and an entire weekend, I'll probably see if there is any truth to it. That alone would be better than any proof they could provide.

Maybe you don't mean to portray so but you sound convinced it is.

I texted Brauer hopefully he has some thoughts.

[positiveContact]

Yeah but does PU have "it"? And obligatory… they're not German!

 

indeed.  they might be even better

[neddles]

I texted Brauer hopefully he has some thoughts.

Cool, I'll be interested to see. Seems like this is right in his wheelhouse.

[Big Nake]

Maybe you don't mean to portray so but you sound convinced it is.

I'm just being open-minded. I know that I do NOT know everything about brewing and that there is always something to learn. Maybe this is one of those things. Maybe it's not.

[cavman]

I'm just being open-minded. I know that I do NOT know everything about brewing and that there is always something to learn. Maybe this is one of those things. Maybe it's not.

Well that sounds open minded, some of your earlier posts sounded like a bit more maybe hopeful.

[cavman]

Cool, I'll be interested to see. Seems like this is right in his wheelhouse.

having only known him for 25-30 years I would agree.

[neddles]

having only known him for 25-30 years I would agree.

Whoa, thats a long way back.