146 replies to this topic

[HVB]

you mean your additions of gypsum/CaCl2 to the sparge?  in the past i've never added anything to the sparge.  i'm not quite sure why I wouldn't just add to the kettle after i had collected all of my runnings.

It says sparge on the sheet but it can be sparge or kettle.  I just add them to the kettle.

[positiveContact]

so where does it tell you how much lime to put in?

[HVB]

I just adjusted the value till I got the profile close.  Trial and error, maybe I am doing it wrong??

 

httpss://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yN5SanrKTUY/UqoVfl1H9VI/AAAAAAAAD2Q/QknXvYpx0zQ/w957-h748-no/water.jpg

[positiveContact]

this is tricky stuff - it seems like lime is not like using gypsum or baking soda or something.

[positiveContact]

since my spreadsheet seems to be lacking here can anyone tell me how to figure out how much lime to add to adjust for some amount of pH shift?

[positiveContact]

i keep reading more about lime treatment and I'm thinking it's a little too complex for me to get a handle on right now.  i'm a little confused why adding a lot of bicarbonate is such an issue.

[positiveContact]

i'm feel like i'm really channeling ken right now.

[HVB]

now you have me worried I did something wrong with my adjustments... I am going to have to go home and pull out Water and Chem books and what not .. or just a beer .. Yeah .. a beer!

[Big Nake]

i'm feel like i'm really channeling ken right now.

Honestly, I wish I could help but this is the opposite of what I do. I also have to admit that I have gotten comfortable enough using EZ_Water, distilled water, my meter and some lactic acid. I think I have a handle on Bru'N'Water but I'm a simpleton and I'm not sure I need to futz with all of those sheets of numbers. I suppose you could keep it simple and just add calcium carbonate since all of the spreadsheets seem to include it but a lot of talk lately has been that it's practically useless. Guv, do you use a pH meter or are you still using strips?

[positiveContact]

now you have me worried I did something wrong with my adjustments... I am going to have to go home and pull out Water and Chem books and what not .. or just a beer .. Yeah .. a beer!

 

your software or spreadsheet seems to be figuring out how much you need to add.  kai's seems to be a little more "DIY" on the lime front.

 

Honestly, I wish I could help but this is the opposite of what I do. I also have to admit that I have gotten comfortable enough using EZ_Water, distilled water, my meter and some lactic acid. I think I have a handle on Bru'N'Water but I'm a simpleton and I'm not sure I need to futz with all of those sheets of numbers. I suppose you could keep it simple and just add calcium carbonate since all of the spreadsheets seem to include it but a lot of talk lately has been that it's practically useless. Guv, do you use a pH meter or are you still using strips?

 

i'm using strips.  i have found them to be fairly accurate (or accurate enough) for brewing purposes.  i'm not sure I'd want to try to do lime on the fly since I'm not fully appreciating what it could do to the mineral content of the wort (dropping calcium out?).  maybe that's only an issue if i add it to the water versus the mash itself.

[positiveContact]

so again - can anyone tell me what a safe bet is?  I have to add a really bitchin amount of baking soda and/or chalk to get my mash pH up to 5.4.

 

why is it so bad to have a lot of bicarbonate if i'm balancing out the acidifying properties of the roasted grain i'm using?  i thought this was the point of adding baking soda.  what am i missing here?

 

just reposting my chem details for ref:

 

i threw my approximate numbers into the braukaiser spreadsheet.  i kept adding baking soda until I hit a pH of 5.46.

 

here is my source water:

 

calcium  5.0magnesium  0.0sodium  26.0sulfate  13.0chloride  26.0bicarb  30.0alkalinity  22.0 

here is the resulting overall water profile for a ~10 gallon batch with 28 lbs of grain with 10.8% roasted malt, 39 srm.  i guessed that i'd be using 14 gallons of water (10 to mash, 4 to sparge).

 

if i do nothing at all i'm looking at a mash pH of 5.0.

 

if i add enough baking soda to get me to a pH of 5.4 (30g of baking soda) the resulting profile for my overall water looks like this:

 

5.0  Calcium (mg/l)0.0  Magnesium (mg/l)180.8  Sodium (mg/l)13.0  Sulfate (mg/l)26.0  Chloride (mg/l)440.6  Bicarbonate (mg/l) *361.1  Alkalinity ppm as CaCO3 

I know that bicarb number looks high but what else should I do to get the pH in range?  it's been said I shouldn't be using chalk.

Edited by TheGuv, 12 December 2013 - 02:47 PM.

[neddles]

so again - can anyone tell me what a safe bet is?  I have to add a really bitchin amount of baking soda and/or chalk to get my mash pH up to 5.4.

 

why is it so bad to have a lot of bicarbonate if i'm balancing out the acidifying properties of the roasted grain i'm using?  i thought this was the point of adding baking soda.  what am i missing here?

 

just reposting my chem details for ref:

 

i threw my approximate numbers into the braukaiser spreadsheet.  i kept adding baking soda until I hit a pH of 5.46.

 

here is my source water:

 

calcium  5.0magnesium  0.0sodium  26.0sulfate  13.0chloride  26.0bicarb  30.0alkalinity  22.0 

here is the resulting overall water profile for a ~10 gallon batch with 28 lbs of grain with 10.8% roasted malt, 39 srm.  i guessed that i'd be using 14 gallons of water (10 to mash, 4 to sparge).

 

if i do nothing at all i'm looking at a mash pH of 5.0.

 

if i add enough baking soda to get me to a pH of 5.4 (30g of baking soda) the resulting profile for my overall water looks like this:

 

5.0  Calcium (mg/l)0.0  Magnesium (mg/l)180.8  Sodium (mg/l)13.0  Sulfate (mg/l)26.0  Chloride (mg/l)440.6  Bicarbonate (mg/l) *361.1  Alkalinity ppm as CaCO3 

I know that bicarb number looks high but what else should I do to get the pH in range?  it's been said I shouldn't be using chalk.

Can you post the exact grist in pounds you are going with and the lovibond rating for each malt? I'm not sure as that stout thread threw quite a few permutations out there. I'll see if I can #### with it in brunwater later tonight.

[neddles]

Can you post the exact grist in pounds you are going with and the lovibond rating for each malt? I'm not sure as that stout thread threw quite a few permutations out there. I'll see if I can #### with it in brunwater later tonight.

Nevermind I just reread the first post, duh.

[MtnBrewer]

Nevermind I just reread the first post, duh.

I was about to ask for the grist too so that I could plug it into Bru'nWater.

[neddles]

This is looking very doable. So what levels of Ca, SO4, and Cl do you want in this?

Edited by ettels4, 12 December 2013 - 04:38 PM.

[MtnBrewer]

Also what is the mash water volume?

[Big Nake]

Now TheGuv knows what I was going through trying to brew the styles I like with my water! I know these guys will be able to help. MTN has soft water but I'm not sure he makes stouts and Ettels is Ettels so he's got that going for him. 

[positiveContact]

Also what is the mash water volume?

 

i usually try to keep my batch sparge at 5 gallons or less.  i also need to check the "can i mash it" calculator to be sure I can handle it.  i suspect i'll be okay.

[MtnBrewer]

Here's what I've got, assuming 10 gallons of mash water.Gypsum - 0.3gBaking Soda - 5.5gCalcium Chloride - 8.1gThis produces a profile in the mash of:Ca 65, Na 66, SO4 18, Cl 129, HCO3 136What I did is use the black malty profile and then reduced baking soda until I got to pH 5.4.

[neddles]

Also what is the mash water volume?

I plugged in the 10 gallon mash and 4 gallon sparge he threw out above. This looks like it is very doable with very modest additions of gypsum, CaCl, and sodium bicarb to achieve a mash pH of 5.4 Ca of 50 and equal amounts of Cl and SO4. I'll wait until you post what levels you wanted. BTW I added nothing to the sparge or kettle, these are mash additions only.