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how to get really awesome hop aroma?

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#21 davelew

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:45 AM

I have been thinking about ways to do this, and the one thing that worries me the most is oxidation, any thoughts?

 

I think a lot of homebrewers think about oxidation the wrong way.  Air is not very dense, and a few pints of air don't contain much oxygen (around 0.1 grams of O2 per pint, if I've done my math correctly).  Oxygen is also not readily soluble in a still liquid, it needs a lot of surface area to start to dissolve (this is the reason for oxidation stones and splashing to get O2 into beer).  The real problem is if you have a leak that air can move through or a membrane that's slightly permeable, then you can get a lot of pints of air.

 

I think you could purge a torpedo with CO2, then quickly connect it to a beer line, and although some oxygen would get in it would likely only be tens of milligrams. 


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#22 MtnBrewer

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:04 AM

I think a lot of homebrewers think about oxidation the wrong way.  Air is not very dense, and a few pints of air don't contain much oxygen (around 0.1 grams of O2 per pint, if I've done my math correctly).  Oxygen is also not readily soluble in a still liquid, it needs a lot of surface area to start to dissolve (this is the reason for oxidation stones and splashing to get O2 into beer).  The real problem is if you have a leak that air can move through or a membrane that's slightly permeable, then you can get a lot of pints of air. I think you could purge a torpedo with CO2, then quickly connect it to a beer line, and although some oxygen would get in it would likely only be tens of milligrams.

Also O2 is less soluble in hot liquid.

#23 miccullen

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:06 AM

 

I think a lot of homebrewers think about oxidation the wrong way.  Air is not very dense, and a few pints of air don't contain much oxygen (around 0.1 grams of O2 per pint, if I've done my math correctly).  Oxygen is also not readily soluble in a still liquid, it needs a lot of surface area to start to dissolve (this is the reason for oxidation stones and splashing to get O2 into beer).  The real problem is if you have a leak that air can move through or a membrane that's slightly permeable, then you can get a lot of pints of air.

 

I think you could purge a torpedo with CO2, then quickly connect it to a beer line, and although some oxygen would get in it would likely only be tens of milligrams. 

I may try this soon


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#24 miccullen

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:07 AM

Also O2 is less soluble in hot liquid.

I am under the impression that the "torpedo" is used at the secondary stage


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#25 MtnBrewer

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:09 AM

I am under the impression that the "torpedo" is used at the secondary stage

You're right, I was thinking of a hop back.

#26 miccullen

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:18 AM

You're right, I was thinking of a hop back.

I figured

 

What I am thinking of doing is using my banjo head beer filter, put 3-4 oz of pellets in it with a set of the coarsest filter I can get, and run a keg of IPA through it into the serving keg.


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#27 johnpreuss

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:51 PM

On my ordinary American recipe I did late additions, flameout, whirlpool and keg hops.  BOOM Hop aroma in your face!  I turned this beer around in just over 2 weeks, and 5 days of keg hops.


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#28 Mindblock

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:03 AM

As others have noted:(1). "Whirlpool addition" of hops instead of adding at flame out retains more hop aroma(2). I routinely dry hop hoppy beers on the corny keg.....my procedure is to keg the beer from primary, cold crash it, and push the first pint or so out of the keg.....allow the now clear beer to come back up to cellar temp, and add the dry hops to the keg.(3). I bought one of these and have found that it helps with the process (easy to add hops, easy to remove hops, and I can carbonate beer and serve off of the hops without any real concern over plugging a dip tube with hop material).....YMMV, but I have found it to be a useful addition (and I am in no way affiliated with Stainless Brewing <G>):https://www.stainles...pper_p_155.html(4). My whirlpool hop and dry hop additions are routinely made with whole hops instead of pellets.....it is purely personal bias and I have no objective evidence to support or refute the practice, I just LIKE whole hops <G>!!!
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#29 TAPPER

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:36 AM

Ditto on all other suggestions.

 

Can't remember which book I read this in (one of the recent IPA or Hops books that came out) but I recall a suggestion to add flameout/whirlpool hops to the fermenter on day 3 of ferment (I assume after the vigorous initial ferment has backed off and the krausen dropped).  I have not tried this yet but hope to on my next hoppy brew.

 

Be sure you're using the freshest hops possible and stored properly.  12 month old hops poorly packaged won't give you anything near a fresh crop vacuum sealed and nitrogen flushed.


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#30 MolBasser

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 08:31 AM

 

Serving through a Randall.

 

Pumping the beer through a sealed hopback, like Sierra Nevada Torpedo.

 

I'm currently designing a homebrew torpedo.  I will report when we get it perfected.

 

MolBasser


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#31 davelew

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:58 PM

 

I'm currently designing a homebrew torpedo.  I will report when we get it perfected.

 

MolBasser

 

Let us know if you need any help.  There are a bunch of mechanical engineers on this board (like me) who would be happy to help with any design work.

 

If I were to build one myself, I would start with a pipe with threaded fittings, then screw in hose fittings in each end, with the hops held in a smaller stainless mesh inside the pipe that still leaves room for beer to flow around the hops.  There would be a fitting at some point in the loop that could be used to purge the O2.

 

I'd start with McMaster-Carr parts 4882K69, 4596K437, 5361k42, a custom mesh hop holder, and a March pump.  I'm not sure how I would hook up the CO2 purge line, I'll have to think a little about an elegant solution for that.


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#32 MolBasser

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 10:38 PM

Homebrewers worry not nearly enough about oxygen in my opinion.

 

Like, way not nearly enough.  And it is the downfall of many a fine homebrew.

 

We work like hell to purge the torpedoes before using them, and any design we come up with will have to address this issue first and foremost.

 

Not only the torpedo itself, but the lines the valves, everything.  Every last little evil molecule of O2 must be eradicated.

 

Well, you get the idea.

 

At any rate the homebrew solution will be a different beast due to lack of pressure of a CCV.

 

MolBasser


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#33 Genesee Ted

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:40 AM

But I have been dry hopping for years with oxygen exposed, it works for me, why change it.  What works for pro brewers doesn't work for home brewers.  :rolleyes:

 

:P



#34 Mando

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 05:40 AM

Homebrewers worry not nearly enough about oxygen in my opinion.

 

I worry about it but there are limits to what I can reasonably do.


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#35 neddles

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 05:48 AM

 

I worry about it but there are limits to what I can reasonably do.

This.

I don't secondary and rack directly into a CO2 flushed keg. The only other thing I can think to do would be a CO2 pushed closed transfer from the carboy to the keg through a carboy cap. What else can a homebrewer do?


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#36 Mando

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 05:55 AM

This.

I don't secondary and rack directly into a CO2 flushed keg. The only other thing I can think to do would be a CO2 pushed closed transfer from the carboy to the keg through a carboy cap. What else can a homebrewer do?

 

that's about it.  until I start using SS primaries even this is tricky.  I don't enjoy messing around pushing with CO2 through the carboy cap.  it's a PITA.


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#37 neddles

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 06:36 AM

 

 it's a PITA.

That is what I have heard. So I have yet to try it.


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#38 Mando

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 06:41 AM

That is what I have heard. So I have yet to try it.

 

the main issue I have with it is i have to hold it down and it leaks some co2 so I'm wasting co2.  i like how a gravity feed is pretty much get it going and let it go.


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#39 matt6150

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 08:49 AM

Could you use a hose clamp on a carboy cap to help sell it? I don't own one so I don't know if I'm missing something.
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#40 Mando

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:06 AM

Could you use a hose clamp on a carboy cap to help sell it? I don't own one so I don't know if I'm missing something.

 

i guess if I had one as big as carboy opening.  i do not.  i'm using a better bottle - they might seal up better against the glass type.


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