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how to get really awesome hop aroma?

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#1 Mando

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:07 AM

I've made some beers with decent hop aroma but I'm never really blown away by the hop aroma.  Dry hopping seems to work pretty well but never as well as I'd like even if I put a lot of hops in.  What techniques should I be trying?  Some ideas I have for the future:

 

tons of late boil additions

whirlpool additions (in my case I'd just pause chilling with my IC for a moment and throw some hops in)

dry hopping at fermentation temps in primary (usualy I dry hop at serving temp)

dry hopping at fermentation temps in secondary (I don't normally do an official secondary, usually I just keg and am done)

 

any other ideas?


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#2 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:11 AM

The more hops you add later in the process the more aromatic it will be. That includes late additions, zero additions, whirlpool additions, dry hop in fermenter, dry hop in keg. If you did all of that I can't imagine not getting good hop aroma in the beer.


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#3 Mando

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:21 AM

The more hops you add later in the process the more aromatic it will be. That includes late additions, zero additions, whirlpool additions, dry hop in fermenter, dry hop in keg. If you did all of that I can't imagine not getting good hop aroma in the beer.

 

I've done most of those techniques but never all at once.  It's worth a shot.  mmmmm - IPA :frank:


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#4 Jdtirado

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:28 AM

Gordon Strong did a session at the NHC about this.  He said that research is now showing the we should dry hop for a little more than 24 hrs (could be longer but not much).  If I recall correctly, he said that dry hopping loses its aroma quicker than  previously thought.


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#5 Mando

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:31 AM

Gordon Strong did a session at the NHC about this.  He said that research is now showing the we should dry hop for a little more than 24 hrs (could be longer but not much).  If I recall correctly, he said that dry hopping loses its aroma quicker than  previously thought.

 

at what temperature?  and how much hops?  a lot of people dry hop for days or even weeks.


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#6 HVB

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:33 AM

Gordon Strong did a session at the NHC about this.  He said that research is now showing the we should dry hop for a little more than 24 hrs (could be longer but not much).  If I recall correctly, he said that dry hopping loses its aroma quicker than  previously thought.

 

Interesting.  I dryhopped and IPA last night and I have nothing to lose so I guess tonight I will drop it to 50 and then keg it by Thursday and see how it is.  I can always add hops to the keg if I feel it needs it.  I was originally going to leave the beer on the dry hops till Friday.


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#7 HVB

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:34 AM

 

at what temperature?  and how much hops?  a lot of people dry hop for days or even weeks.

 

I have never had good luck dry hopping for weeks.  Always got grassy/veggital to me.  I have been trying to do one or two dryhops for 3-4 days each latley after a talk Vinnie from Russian River did a few years back. 


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#8 Jdtirado

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:35 AM

 

at what temperature?  and how much hops?  a lot of people dry hop for days or even weeks.

He didn't say, but did say that whirlpool and late additions are also effective in giving hop aroma.  


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#9 neddles

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:36 AM

any other ideas?

1.Do the whirlpool additions as you suggested. Stop chilling around 160-175F,  add the hops and give it a whirl. Let it rest for 15-20min. before you resume chilling.

 

2. Dry hop at room temp. Extraction reportedly works much better that at serving temp. My only experience here is that keg additions have not been as effective when I dont let the keg warm up first. (if its already been chilled)

 

3. Multiple dry hop additions. I know Firestone Walker does this and so does Jamil at his brewery. Jamil explained it like this... You add large quantities of hop material and a lot of it settles right to the bottom and is buried by other hop material or even yeast that may still be crashing out. Once buried and no longer in contact with the beer it does not extract any more flavor/aroma into the beer. Multiple smaller additions allow better extraction by avoiding this situation. I've seen nothing objective on this but couldn't ignore it considering who practices it and went ahead and tried on my session APA. I added 1oz per day for 4 days and crashed on the 7th day. The aroma in that beer was as good as any I have made. (it also included substantial late hopping and a whirlpool addition)

 

4. Crash out the yeast first. I have read/heard multiple times that the yeast will bind to hop resins/oils and crash them out when they drop. I can't say I have noticed a big difference between doing this and not doing this but it makes sense and if I have the time I will do it. Might also be a good argument for using english yeast... again like Firestone Walker does.


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#10 HVB

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:42 AM

 

3. Multiple dry hop additions. I know Firestone Walker does this and so does Jamil at his brewery. Jamil explained it like this... You add large quantities of hop material and a lot of it settles right to the bottom and is buried by other hop material or even yeast that may still be crashing out. Once buried and no longer in contact with the beer it does not extract any more flavor/aroma into the beer. Multiple smaller additions allow better extraction by avoiding this situation. I've seen nothing objective on this but couldn't ignore it considering who practices it and went ahead and tried on my session APA. I added 1oz per day for 4 days and crashed on the 7th day. The aroma in that beer was as good as any I have made. (it also included substantial late hopping and a whirlpool addition)

 

 

Rousing the fermenter to get the hops back in contact with the beer can also help.


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#11 neddles

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:47 AM

 

Rousing the fermenter to get the hops back in contact with the beer can also help.

Wouldn't this only be done if you are in secondary?

 

Which reminds me of something I left out of my other post. Dry hop in the primary only. The idea is that you are trying to avoid as much contact with O2 as possible as it will shorten the life/spoil the aroma of a well hopped beer.


Edited by ettels4, 09 July 2013 - 05:47 AM.

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#12 Mando

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:56 AM

 

I have never had good luck dry hopping for weeks.  Always got grassy/veggital to me.

 

i actually have a keg right now where the hops have been in there for a few weeks.  you go through a grassy stage but then it fades.  while the aroma isn't super intense it does last all the way through the keg which is nice since it takes me months to finish a keg.

 

1.Do the whirlpool additions as you suggested. Stop chilling around 160-175F,  add the hops and give it a whirl. Let it rest for 15-20min. before you resume chilling.

 

2. Dry hop at room temp. Extraction reportedly works much better that at serving temp. My only experience here is that keg additions have not been as effective when I dont let the keg warm up first. (if its already been chilled)

 

3. Multiple dry hop additions. I know Firestone Walker does this and so does Jamil at his brewery. Jamil explained it like this... You add large quantities of hop material and a lot of it settles right to the bottom and is buried by other hop material or even yeast that may still be crashing out. Once buried and no longer in contact with the beer it does not extract any more flavor/aroma into the beer. Multiple smaller additions allow better extraction by avoiding this situation. I've seen nothing objective on this but couldn't ignore it considering who practices it and went ahead and tried on my session APA. I added 1oz per day for 4 days and crashed on the 7th day. The aroma in that beer was as good as any I have made. (it also included substantial late hopping and a whirlpool addition)

 

4. Crash out the yeast first. I have read/heard multiple times that the yeast will bind to hop resins/oils and crash them out when they drop. I can't say I have noticed a big difference between doing this and not doing this but it makes sense and if I have the time I will do it. Might also be a good argument for using english yeast... again like Firestone Walker does.

 

maybe on my next 10 gallon IPA I'll split it into two carboys and try some different dry hopping techniques.


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#13 HVB

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:57 AM

Wouldn't this only be done if you are in secondary?

 

 Why?  I am confused what the difference between primary and seconday would have unless you are worried about bringing the yeast back up into suspension.


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#14 HVB

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:58 AM

 

i actually have a keg right now where the hops have been in there for a few weeks.  you go through a grassy stage but then it fades.  while the aroma isn't super intense it does last all the way through the keg which is nice since it takes me months to finish a keg.

 

 

 

I will have to try it again one of these days.  It may also have been hop type dependant.


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#15 Mando

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 06:07 AM

 

I will have to try it again one of these days.  It may also have been hop type dependant.

 

i've been doing it with columbus.


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#16 neddles

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 06:08 AM

 Why?  I am confused what the difference between primary and seconday would have unless you are worried about bringing the yeast back up into suspension.

Yes I am worried about bring the yeast back up into suspension. I have read/heard several times now that the yeast will bind to what you are extracting and pull it out of the beer. 


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#17 davelew

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 06:25 AM

any other ideas?

 

Serving through a Randall.

 

Pumping the beer through a sealed hopback, like Sierra Nevada Torpedo.


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#18 neddles

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 06:37 AM

Yes I am worried about bring the yeast back up into suspension. I have read/heard several times now that the yeast will bind to what you are extracting and pull it out of the beer. 

And this is very different and not to be confused with another technique you could use which is adding your first addition of dry hops to the fermenting beer when it has not yet reached terminal gravity (maybe a deg. plato or so from expected FG.) The active yeast will interact with the hops to create other completely unique compounds and flavors. I think this was mentioned in For the Love of Hops. I believe Firestone Walker and others use this technique as well as Mike McDole. I have not tried it...yet.


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#19 Mando

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 06:44 AM

 

Serving through a Randall.

 

Pumping the beer through a sealed hopback, like Sierra Nevada Torpedo.

 

I've considered the randall but really that would only be good for something like a party event.  I don't drink beer fast enough.

 

hopback wouldn't really work for me currently since I don't use a pump.


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#20 miccullen

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:01 AM

 

 

 

Pumping the beer through a sealed hopback, like Sierra Nevada Torpedo.

I have been thinking about ways to do this, and the one thing that worries me the most is oxidation, any thoughts?


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