137 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

I don't think it's an either/or question.

This is true. Most homebrewers I know are very current with all of the popular commercial beers out there and they discuss them on the forums all the time. I will be honest... I don't buy a lot of commercial beer and I don't keep up with the latest commercial sensation. My brewing friends will say, Dude, did you taste MURDEROUS RAMPAGE yet? It's AWESOME! I have no idea what they're talking about. I do know about some local commercial beers but not that many. I know of some local breweries who have special arrangements with distributors so that any beer that is past its date is brought back to the brewery. The brewery is very serious about their product being consumed within a certain time whether it be for a late-hop profile that will fade or whatever. All of this suggests that beer is a perishable product that must be consumed within a certain time. When you go into a bar, restaurant or liquor store, you have absolutely no idea how long a beer has been sitting around or whether it's been mishandled. You have better control over your homebrew and that's an advantage. If you taste your own beer and think it's inferior to some commercial beer that it can be compared to, there are all kinds of outlets for finding out why. Take it to a club meeting and ask them what they taste. Enter it in a comp and look for productive feedback. Send it to another homebrewer that you trust and ask them for help. Then polish your process.

[positiveContact]

I don't think it's an either/or question. Homebrewing helps me to understand and appreciate commercial beers, and commercial beers help me to show me what's possible in brewing. Brewing beer and buying beer go together, they don't replace each other.

while this is true I'm more in line with ken. most commercial beer i try is given to me. it is nice to have commercials beers though. it lets me know that I'm better than a lot of stuff out there but there is still room for improvement. i also think you are right that if you brew beer in a controlled way and formulate your own recipes you have insight into commercial beer that most people would not.

[Hines]

JT,My beers aren't that great. Part of my problem is probably process, recipe, and carbonation.If I could afford to buy just great beer every day, would I still brew? Probably. Kind of like what Denny said...just because I could afford to buy prepared food all of the time, that doesn't mean I wouldn't want to cook my own meals on occasion.I certainly hope to be able to bring a few of my brews when I see you this summer. You'll know exactly where I am coming from!

[Big Nake]

When I got together with some of the local Beerheads recently, we did discuss some local craft beers that I had sampled. Some were fine and clearly well-made but I have to say that there were 3 or 4 breweries that popped up in our conversation where everyone said, "They make terrible beer" or "Did you taste that nasty dishwater amber ale they make?" and things of that nature. There is no point in just saying "commercial beer" because a lot of it is either crap or did not age well. Better to mention the commercial beer you have in mind or are in love with at the moment. In the meantime, I have always asserted that if you're not happy with your homebrew or you feel like you're choking it down... or if you take a break from your beer to have a commercial beer and you say, Ah, that's what beer should taste like!, you either have work to do or you should just drink commercial beer. That's not meant to be mean. It's meant to say that if you don't care for the beer you make, don't spend the time making it.

[positiveContact]

When I got together with some of the local Beerheads recently, we did discuss some local craft beers that I had sampled. Some were fine and clearly well-made but I have to say that there were 3 or 4 breweries that popped up in our conversation where everyone said, "They make terrible beer" or "Did you taste that nasty dishwater amber ale they make?" and things of that nature. There is no point in just saying "commercial beer" because a lot of it is either crap or did not age well. Better to mention the commercial beer you have in mind or are in love with at the moment. In the meantime, I have always asserted that if you're not happy with your homebrew or you feel like you're choking it down... or if you take a break from your beer to have a commercial beer and you say, Ah, that's what beer should taste like!, you either have work to do or you should just drink commercial beer. That's not meant to be mean. It's meant to say that if you don't care for the beer you make, don't spend the time making it.

there have been a couple of times where I had commercial beer and was relieved when I got home and drank my own stuff. phew.

[ChefLamont]

I think we also need to admit/note that there are commercial beers that are truly spectacular. I dont think is its necessarily fair to ourselves to compare our beer to them. Strive to make them, sure. But if you cant brew a trapist dark stong to rival Westvleteren, its ok. They have had a heck of a head start on you. Hell, Weihenstephaner has had almost a thousand year head stard .I do think it is far to compare our beer to the average, run of the mill brewery or brew pub. In that case, I think many here could beat them nearly any day of the week.When I buy beer, it is ususally one of two things. Either a style I dont have on tap that I am thirsty for or one of the stellars mentioned above. Ok I buy cheep yellow beer sometimes, but dont tell anyone.

[Big Nake]

Agreed. I like a lot of German styles too and they have some serious experience over there.

[al_bob]

Sure, just like I'd rather cook than buy pre made food. I enjoy the process at least as much as the finished product. Are my beers as good as "commercial" beers? it depends. There are a lot of mediocre commercial beers and there are a lot of great ones. My Rochefort 10 is damn good, but it'll never be as good as the real thing. Same thing with my version of Celebration, for instance. OTOH, some of my beers are as good as some commercial beers. As has been said, experience helps. Maybe concentrate on one recipe and brew it over and over until it's completely repeatable. That will really help you understand what's going on and why.

This is the key for me. If I lived in a place where good beers wasn't as readily available, my motivation might be different. I can brew beers that rival commercial beers, not always but frequently. However, brewing is fun and I enjoy the process. I think I learn something every time I brew. I also take pride in a well-made beer in two different ways. When I serve it to friends who are knowledgeable enough to appreciate a good beer and they like it, I take pride in that. Also when I serve it to members of the club, some of whom are national judges, and THEY enjoy it, then I really take pride in it.

I don't think it's an either/or question. Homebrewing helps me to understand and appreciate commercial beers, and commercial beers help me to show me what's possible in brewing. Brewing beer and buying beer go together, they don't replace each other.

All of this. I've been trying for 7 years to figure out how to brew a balanced IPA, and I finally have it down better than ever before. I'm repeating the same results for the last 4 beers. I would consider them my best IPA's ever. But, I read a lot, used the forums a lot (it's how I met everybody here), and tried to immerse myself in it as much as I could the last 4-5 years. I could have been here faster but I had to up and move after my first year of brewing and I'm just now getting settled really good again to where my system is predictable.

[davelew]

If money and availability weren't a problem, I'm not sure that I would brew! Instead, i would simply buy some of the great beers out there.

If I just bought great beers instead of spending all the money I've spent on brewing equipment over the years, I'd probably come out ahead.Homebrewing might save some money on a per-beer cost, but when you include the non-recurring engineering charges for all of my equipment, it's probably a money loser and definitely a time waster.On the other hand, it's a damned fun way to waste time and money.

[positiveContact]

If I just bought great beers instead of spending all the money I've spent on brewing equipment over the years, I'd probably come out ahead.Homebrewing might save some money on a per-beer cost, but when you include the non-recurring engineering charges for all of my equipment, it's probably a money loser and definitely a time waster.On the other hand, it's a damned fun way to waste time and money.

it would take a dedicated individual to come out ahead. that is for sure!

[Jdtirado]

I need to making my brewing easier and more fun. I think that I'd like an electric system where I could control the variable a bit better. I'm also going to get a SS immersion chiller and keel my plate chiller around as a backup. Let me extend and open invitation to any engineer out there to build my system...just kidding!Ok I'm not kidding

[zymot]

I need to making my brewing easier and more fun. I think that I'd like an electric system where I could control the variable a bit better. I'm also going to get a SS immersion chiller and keel my plate chiller around as a backup. Let me extend and open invitation to any engineer out there to build my system...just kidding!Ok I'm not kidding

Why a SS IM? Copper will transfer heat better, cost less and cleaning isn't a problem.

[HVB]

Why a SS IM? Copper will transfer heat better, cost less and cleaning isn't a problem.

I agree with this. The nice part of an IM is you just keep it clean and put it in your boil with 20 minutes less. I would consider a 50'x 1/2" IM chiller if you are going to get one.

[denny]

I need to making my brewing easier and more fun. I think that I'd like an electric system where I could control the variable a bit better. I'm also going to get a SS immersion chiller and keel my plate chiller around as a backup. Let me extend and open invitation to any engineer out there to build my system...just kidding!Ok I'm not kidding

The brewer makes the beer, the equipment doesn't. Feel free to use any equipment that suits your style, but don't necessarily think it will improve your beer.

[zymot]

The brewer makes the beer, the equipment doesn't. Feel free to use any equipment that suits your style, but don't necessarily think it will improve your beer.

+1Nobody is one SS IM away from making good beer.

[Hines]

The brewer makes the beer, the equipment doesn't. Feel free to use any equipment that suits your style, but don't necessarily think it will improve your beer.

This. But also what JDT said. My brewing became more fun and easier for me when I took the time to get little pieces of equipment that made my process easier for me personally. I'm sure the starter kit that I bought 8 years ago would make damn fine beer if I had been more attentive to the process.Personally, I think when I get better at force carbing kegs, my beer will make that next large leap forward. (similar to when I started using a fermentation chamber).

[HVB]

The brewer makes the beer, the equipment doesn't. Feel free to use any equipment that suits your style, but don't necessarily think it will improve your beer.

I have to agree with Denny. I have a custom electric brewery that I use and feel I make good beer but I made good beer before on a turkey fryer with a cooler MLT. The nice part is I can get better repeatability by having temperature monitoring and adjusting on the fly with a RIMS. I like the building aspect of homebrewing so this suits me very well and also lets me get some mechanical creative thinking. Also, having a more complicated brew house may also make brewing less fun for some and when something breaks it may be a costly fix. I love to look at pictures of the farmhouse breweries over in Belgium and see what they brew on. It is amazing the beer they can make on what may consider "primative" equipment.

[positiveContact]

anything I could do to make things easier and less prone to error will allow me to focus on other details.

[davelew]

I'm also going to get a SS immersion chiller and keel my plate chiller around as a backup.

Suck it up and use a coolship like the real brewers do.