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What is going to happen?

mashing

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#1 brewman

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 05:22 AM

Due to problems during our brew we had to leave the grain in the tun for over 1.5 hours. It started out at 153 and after 1.5 hours It was still at 150. This was the second batch through the tun so It was already hot when we started and in the sun so it kept its temps very very well.I am worried about how this will turn out with being in there so long. After the delay we sparged and put all the wort in the kettle.Is this going to turn out ok???Dan

#2 Beejus McReejus

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 05:26 AM

No worries at all.

#3 HVB

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 05:34 AM

As I posted in the other thread, I agree with BJ and would not worry about it. Many mash for 90 minutes and only loosing 3 degrees is no big deal.

#4 Deerslyr

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 05:36 AM

You will be perfectly fine. And when you realize it turns out good, you will do an "overnight mash" if you need to to split your work between two days.

#5 HVB

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 05:39 AM

Similiar to the overnight mash, I have thought of doing an 8 hour mash while at work. Just come home, drain and sparge and be boiling in no time.

#6 Big Nake

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:04 AM

Sometimes I do that on purpose... no worries.

#7 davelew

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:57 AM

Due to problems during our brew we had to leave the grain in the tun for over 1.5 hours. It started out at 153 and after 1.5 hours It was still at 150. This was the second batch through the tun so It was already hot when we started and in the sun so it kept its temps very very well.I am worried about how this will turn out with being in there so long. After the delay we sparged and put all the wort in the kettle.Is this going to turn out ok???Dan

I often do that on purpose. Mash in, make lunch, eat lunch, heat sparge & mashout water, and suddenly 90 minutes have gone by.

#8 brewman

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:59 AM

Sweet, we were worried that with it sitting so long something bad was going to happen.Dan

#9 MyaCullen

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 07:30 AM

Sweet, we were worried that with it sitting so long something bad was going to happen.Dan

it should turn out to be beneficial in the end :frank:

#10 gnef

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:04 PM

It may turn out to be drier than you anticipated, but other than that, I would not worry about it at all. I do extended mashes for my big beers. The only concern is souring of the mash, but it would take a long time for that to be noticeable.

#11 Jdtirado

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:09 PM

It may turn out to be drier than you anticipated, but other than that, I would not worry about it at all. I do extended mashes for my big beers. The only concern is souring of the mash, but it would take a long time for that to be noticeable.

Explain. I thought that once the conversion happened an hour more wouldn't hurt anything.

#12 MyaCullen

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:20 PM

Explain. I thought that once the conversion happened an hour more wouldn't hurt anything.

there are factors beyond simple starch conversion, what they get converted to is determined by many factors, including ph, temperature, time mash thickness, don't sweat it though John, not a big dealDCRIPA is better drier, the Rye really stands out with a dry finish

#13 gnef

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:27 PM

The longer you give the enzymes to work, the more carbohydrates they will be able to cut - that is the entire purpose of the mash. Let me give a bit more background on base grain(others can fill in the details, and specialty grain can be a little bit different, to very different):The grain we use is malted, which means that it has been allowed to germinate - roughly to where the radical (first root) is about as long as the seed itself. The actual process details is highly guarded by the malters apparently. This growth of the radical activates enzymes that are already present in the grain, converting some of the starch energy reserves inside the seed into shorter sugar molecules, glucose in particular. Once the radical has grown to the appropriate length, germination is stopped. This is when the grain is kilned, the level of kilning determine the color and some other flavor aspects of the grain.Then we get the grain. We crack it open to increase the surface area of the starches in particular. We add water to activate certain enzymes. Before we had well modified malts, step mashes were required to be able to get a 'fully' fermentable end product. There are names for each step that activate specific enzymes. I think of it more simply - the earlier enzymes at lower temperatures cut the big starches into smaller starches. The enzymes at the higher temperatures cut the smaller starches into fermentable sugars. By adjusting the temperature of the mash, we can adjust the fermentability of the wort along with a host of other factors.Now, the longer you allow the mash to happen at what we call the saccharification rest (typically the only rest in a single infusion mash - what I do, or usually the last step before a mash out if step mashing), the longer you allow those enzymes to work to keep cutting those smaller starches into fermentable sugars, and for some of the fermentable sugars into even smaller sugars. These smaller sugars are highly fermentable, and are actually the preferred food source of the yeast. The higher the percentage of the sugars that are these smaller simple sugars, the lower the final gravity will tend to be, making the end product drier, with a higher apparent attenuation.Whew. I did that all off the top of my head, so if any part of it is incorrect, will someone please correct me! I know I skipped some information too, so if someone with more experience wants to chime in, please do!

#14 Jdtirado

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:32 PM

Whew. I did that all off the top of my head, so if any part of it is incorrect, will someone please correct me! I know I skipped some information too, so if someone with more experience wants to chime in, please do!

Awesome job dude, thanks!

#15 davelew

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:37 PM

Explain. I thought that once the conversion happened an hour more wouldn't hurt anything.

More conversion happens after the first hour, but pretty slowly. To get a significantly drier beer, many people go to eight hour mashes. Personally, it's tough for me to taste the difference between a 60 minute mash and a 90 minute mash, but I can tell the difference with an all-day mash.

#16 Jdtirado

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:43 PM

More conversion happens after the first hour, but pretty slowly. To get a significantly drier beer, many people go to eight hour mashes. Personally, it's tough for me to taste the difference between a 60 minute mash and a 90 minute mash, but I can tell the difference with an all-day mash.

Holy crap, 8 hours. How to they maintain mash temps?

#17 beach

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:46 PM

...and the over-night-mashers are about to chime in.....Beach

#18 MyaCullen

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 06:52 PM

Holy crap, 8 hours. How to they maintain mash temps?

you can wrap your cooler in sleepimg bags etc..most just mash in and leave it set for 8 hours at that point

#19 davelew

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 08:10 AM

Holy crap, 8 hours. How to they maintain mash temps?

Mostovens go down to abou 170 when set at warm. If you put the mash in a 170 degree oven, the 20 degree temperature differential is too small to cause much temperature change through halfway decent insulation. Basically, eight hours of 20 degree differential are like 1.5 hours at 100 degree temperature differential, you'll only see a two or three degree shift (assuming your insulation holds up).



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