76 replies to this topic

[lowendfrequency]

Looking good. I don't know about the cinnamon though. Seems really out of place for this beer. I'd replace it with star anise. I detect it on the nose, but always figured it was just the yeast. I'm not sure that a 1/4 pound of sugar would be enough to contribute much. I'd go for somewheres like a half to a whole pound, but I wouldn't add it until day 2 in primary (boiled down and cooled).

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Looking good. I don't know about the cinnamon though. Seems really out of place for this beer. I'd replace it with star anise. I detect it on the nose, but always figured it was just the yeast. I'm not sure that a 1/4 pound of sugar would be enough to contribute much. I'd go for somewheres like a half to a whole pound, but I wouldn't add it until day 2 in primary (boiled down and cooled).

yeah - I'm kind of on the edge with the cinnamon. since I don't have star anise I'm just going to skip that this time around. At what point does adding sugar start getting into cidery type tastes? I would like to avoid that. ETA: I also think I want to keep the sugar in primary just to keep things simple. I realize some of the yeast will go for that first but I don't think it will be a large enough amount to really throw off the fermentation.

[lowendfrequency]

IMO, sugar never creates a cidery flavor. Poor fermentation control and yeast handling is what causes that. I've tasted many cidery beers and they were usually from oxidized extract with improper aeration, underpitched and high ferm temps. That being said, I feel comfortable with up to 15% of my fermentables coming from sugars. But seriously though, add it in your primary. The end goal of using sugars in this manner is to make a drier beer, and I would argue that only half of that dryness comes from the extra fermentability of the sugar. The other half comes from the voracity in which yeast in your primary attack the sugars. At this point the yeast have already reproduced and are hungry. Strike when the iron is hot.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

IMO, sugar never creates a cidery flavor. Poor fermentation control and yeast handling is what causes that. I've tasted many cidery beers and they were usually from oxidized extract with improper aeration, underpitched and high ferm temps. That being said, I feel comfortable with up to 15% of my fermentables coming from sugars. But seriously though, add it in your primary. The end goal of using sugars in this manner is to make a drier beer, and I would argue that only half of that dryness comes from the extra fermentability of the sugar. The other half comes from the voracity in which yeast in your primary attack the sugars. At this point the yeast have already reproduced and are hungry. Strike when the iron is hot.

I wasn't very clear in what I said - I meant I wanted to add the sugar to the boil so that it was in the primary right from the beginning. I don't like opening up my fermenter unnecessarily if I don't have to.

[lowendfrequency]

I wasn't very clear in what I said - I meant I wanted to add the sugar to the boil so that it was in the primary right from the beginning. I don't like opening up my fermenter unnecessarily if I don't have to.

No, you were clear. I understood you. I was just making an argument for why you shouldn't do that and instead add it to your primary fermenter Not a huge deal either way, but definitely try it sometime. I don't like to mess with my beer too much once it's in the fermenter either but when it's bubbling away on day two, it's putting off some serious co2, blanketing your beer from any oxygen or airborne nasties. Add the sugar (boiled down and cooled) through the bung hole ( ) and get ready for a blowoff ( ) in the next few hours.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

No, you were clear. I understood you. I was just making an argument for why you shouldn't do that and instead add it to your primary fermenter Not a huge deal either way, but definitely try it sometime. I don't like to mess with my beer too much once it's in the fermenter either but when it's bubbling away on day two, it's putting off some serious co2, blanketing your beer from any oxygen or airborne nasties. Add the sugar (boiled down and cooled) through the bung hole ( ) and get ready for a blowoff ( ) in the next few hours.

I may still do it This yeast is insane. I'm def going with a blow-off right from the start.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Is this a beer that would be better to bottle instead of keg?

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Okay. Sweet orange peel acquired. I also bought some star anise (what the hell). I would have bought some grains of paradise but he didn't have any yet.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Okay. Sweet orange peel acquired. I also bought some star anise (what the hell). I would have bought some grains of paradise but he didn't have any yet.

So I'm thinking about 1/2 to 1 star (0.03-0.06oz) would be about right as to not overpower anything.

[lowendfrequency]

Yeah, I'd say a whole star at about 10 minutes left in the boil should be good. Depends on the size of your stars though. The ones that I have experience with were about the size of a dime and 2 stars in a 5 gallon batch left a noticeable licorice aroma/flavor. Since this beer has subtle spicing, I think you're right on the money with 1/2 - 1 star. FWIW, the licorice character seemed to fade dramatically over time so if you feel that you overdid it with the anise, just let it age out.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Yeah, I'd say a whole star at about 10 minutes left in the boil should be good. Depends on the size of your stars though. The ones that I have experience with were about the size of a dime and 2 stars in a 5 gallon batch left a noticeable licorice aroma/flavor. Since this beer has subtle spicing, I think you're right on the money with 1/2 - 1 star. FWIW, the licorice character seemed to fade dramatically over time so if you feel that you overdid it with the anise, just let it age out.

Mine are more like a quarter or maybe even a little bigger.

[lowendfrequency]

Mine are more like a quarter or maybe even a little bigger.

Maybe no more than a half-star? Don't want to overdo it.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Maybe no more than a half-star? Don't want to overdo it.

that's my thought as well.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

that's my thought as well.

also - I upped my sugar to 0.75lbs and I'm pulling back on the pilsen a little bit to get the ABV closer to what I expect (mid 6s).

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

final update as brewed:GRAIN/SPICES:7.50 lbs Pils1.00 lb Munich1.00 lb Pale Ale0.75 lb Caravienne0.75 lb Aromatic0.25 lb Special Bend of boil additions:0.5oz sweet orange peel @ 5 mins0.25oz coriander (ground) @ 5 mins1/2 star anise (not all that crushed) @ flame outprimary additions:0.75lbs of sugar day 2 of primarymash around 150-151FHOPS:1.5 oz Styrian Goldings for 60 min0.8 oz Czech Saaz for 15 minYEAST:I'll be using the yeast I built up from some bottles of Rare Vos. I'll probably ferment in the low to mid 70s.SRM: 10.63OG: 1.061 (measured post-boil)IBU: 30 (corrected)I'm predicting the ABV will be about 6.8%. They hydro sample tasted great.

[lowendfrequency]

Regardless of whether it comes close to Rare Vos or not (which I think it will), that looks like a delicious recipe. Cheers to you for working that one out. Be sure to keep us posted.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Regardless of whether it comes close to Rare Vos or not (which I think it will), that looks like a delicious recipe. Cheers to you for working that one out. Be sure to keep us posted.

A little over 24 hours into fermentation I just had to replace the blow off. It was full of yeastiness and was overflowing the bottle of sanitizer at the end of the tube. I just moved it to an area that is a degree or two cooler and cleaned and replaced the hose and bottle. This morning prior to the blow out it smelled not that different from any standard ale but now it has a little funk to it. The sticker on my fermenter was reading about 73F. Tomorrow I plan to add in the 3/4 lb of sugar (boiled in a little water first). I'm starting to collect some bottles b/c I think that's more appropriate for this beer instead of kegging it.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

SOB this yeast is nuts. I'm glad I used my larger bucket for primary on this one. Hose was clogged up again this morning. Ferm temp is down to about 71F now.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

alright - things were cooling off so back to the top of the basement stairs (close to 70F). 3/4lb of sugar boiled in 2 cups of water is in as well. the funky smelling period of the fermentation seems to be over and now we are back to nice fruity smells. the excitement builds...

[shaggaroo]

Zym... any updates for us yet?