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the going electric thread


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#21 positiveContact

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 06:52 AM

When looking for wire check out the wire rack sold by the foot. Sometimes that can be cheaper than the big rolls depending on the length you need. It will be a orange wire labeled as 10-3, that will have 4 wires in it. I'm guessing you are running it in a conduit in your garage?

 

I was going to in the garage portion of the run yes.  is it okay to run without conduit for the part in the basement?



#22 matt6150

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 07:16 AM

Like a unfinished basement where if you would put up drywall then it would be covered?

#23 positiveContact

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 07:25 AM

Like a unfinished basement where if you would put up drywall then it would be covered?

 

totally unfinished yes.



#24 matt6150

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 07:49 AM

Then I don't see a problem. You probably have many wires exposed down there.

#25 3rd party JKor

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 07:57 AM

To be clear, most breakers will work across brands but they are definitely not standardized. They keep them just different enough to give people a reason to buy the brand of their panel but i've used cross brand breakers a few times and they all worked.

I was going to in the garage portion of the run yes. is it okay to run without conduit for the part in the basement?


You can do whatever the feck you want as long as it's not getting inspected. :)

#26 positiveContact

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 08:46 AM

To be clear, most breakers will work across brands but they are definitely not standardized. They keep them just different enough to give people a reason to buy the brand of their panel but i've used cross brand breakers a few times and they all worked.

You can do whatever the feck you want as long as it's not getting inspected. :)

 

well, I'd also like it to be safe and not a situation where if my house burns down I get nothing on some sort of technicality.


Edited by Mando, 03 May 2020 - 08:46 AM.


#27 gnef

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 10:40 AM

If you want 50 amp capacity, you'll want to use 6 gauge copper wire or 4 gauge aluminum wire. I put the GFCI in my main panel, and then ran to a sub panel with standard breakers. I think the 50 amp GFCI was around $70 or so.

 

Most breakers can physically fit, but if there is ever a problem or electrical fire, and they find out that you used a cross brand that wasn't on the approved list, you could be liable for any damages, and insurance may not pay out. You need to look at the manufacturer of the panel to look through their documentation to find the breakers that have been approved by them to be used in their panels.

 

For example, I have a siemens main panel and sub panel. For a while, I had some Square-D breakers in the main panel when I added some circuits to the garage, but these were not approved, so I recently changed them out to siemens breakers just to be consistent. Same with my sub panel - when I bought my 18 inch bandsaw, I needed to run a new 220v circuit, and home depot didn't have a simens, so I bought whatever they had, and used it for a while, but I also ordered the siemens breaker from amazon, and when it came in, I changed it out.

 

It's one of those things where you most likely won't have any problems since it physically fits and works just fine, but if anything does go wrong, you may be in trouble for what would end up being a small cost to get approved breakers.

 

I ran 6 gauge wire in my basement/garage, stapled to the beams. The sub panel I bought only has 8 spots, and I am now wishing I had bought one with 12 (I might still change it out, the sub panels themselves are fairly inexpensive, it would just be a bit tedious to change all the breakers and wiring out), because where I brew is next to where I do my woodworking, and it would be nice to have additional 220v circuits for more equipment. For brewing, I can have both 5500 Watt elements running at the same time, which is nice to be able to do.

 

I also added one of those cheap meters so I can see how much electricity I'm using through the sub panel (it shows voltage, amperage, wattage, and KWh used).



#28 positiveContact

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 11:53 AM

sorry it changed during the thread that I'll probably do 30A just b/c I'll only have the element going.  eaton is the right brand.  they must have bought CH or something.



#29 3rd party JKor

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 04:15 PM

sorry it changed during the thread that I'll probably do 30A just b/c I'll only have the element going. eaton is the right brand. they must have bought CH or something.


Do the install for 50A, it's a pain to got back later and change stuff.

#30 positiveContact

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 04:16 AM

If you want 50 amp capacity, you'll want to use 6 gauge copper wire or 4 gauge aluminum wire. I put the GFCI in my main panel, and then ran to a sub panel with standard breakers. I think the 50 amp GFCI was around $70 or so.

 

Most breakers can physically fit, but if there is ever a problem or electrical fire, and they find out that you used a cross brand that wasn't on the approved list, you could be liable for any damages, and insurance may not pay out. You need to look at the manufacturer of the panel to look through their documentation to find the breakers that have been approved by them to be used in their panels.

 

For example, I have a siemens main panel and sub panel. For a while, I had some Square-D breakers in the main panel when I added some circuits to the garage, but these were not approved, so I recently changed them out to siemens breakers just to be consistent. Same with my sub panel - when I bought my 18 inch bandsaw, I needed to run a new 220v circuit, and home depot didn't have a simens, so I bought whatever they had, and used it for a while, but I also ordered the siemens breaker from amazon, and when it came in, I changed it out.

 

It's one of those things where you most likely won't have any problems since it physically fits and works just fine, but if anything does go wrong, you may be in trouble for what would end up being a small cost to get approved breakers.

 

I ran 6 gauge wire in my basement/garage, stapled to the beams. The sub panel I bought only has 8 spots, and I am now wishing I had bought one with 12 (I might still change it out, the sub panels themselves are fairly inexpensive, it would just be a bit tedious to change all the breakers and wiring out), because where I brew is next to where I do my woodworking, and it would be nice to have additional 220v circuits for more equipment. For brewing, I can have both 5500 Watt elements running at the same time, which is nice to be able to do.

 

I also added one of those cheap meters so I can see how much electricity I'm using through the sub panel (it shows voltage, amperage, wattage, and KWh used).

 

hmmm - where does one usually find these approved lists?

 

Do the install for 50A, it's a pain to got back later and change stuff.

 

not a bad point there.



#31 HVB

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 04:42 AM

The picture of your panel tells you what kind of breakers to use. 



#32 positiveContact

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 05:29 AM

The picture of your panel tells you what kind of breakers to use. 

 

that would be too easy so of course I immediately didn't read it :P



#33 HVB

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 06:17 AM

that would be too easy so of course I immediately didn't read it :P

Understandable!



#34 matt6150

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 06:29 AM

Do the install for 50A, it's a pain to got back later and change stuff.

 

 

not a bad point there.

I guess I would try to decide what your future plans may be. If you know you want to put in a 100amp panel later down the road then putting in the 30amp outlet now won't make much difference later. If you think you would possibly want to run 2 elements some day, as in brewing back to back batches or a 30gal batch or something then you should probably run a 50amp outlet now. Unless you just want to get it over with and put in a sub panel now.



#35 positiveContact

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 02:24 PM

I guess I would try to decide what your future plans may be. If you know you want to put in a 100amp panel later down the road then putting in the 30amp outlet now won't make much difference later. If you think you would possibly want to run 2 elements some day, as in brewing back to back batches or a 30gal batch or something then you should probably run a 50amp outlet now. Unless you just want to get it over with and put in a sub panel now.

 

just a question - would the GFCI go on the main panel or the subpanel (if I put in a subpanel)?



#36 matt6150

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 02:54 PM

just a question - would the GFCI go on the main panel or the subpanel (if I put in a subpanel)?

You could do it either way. If you put it in the main panel everything hooked up to the subpanel would be GFCI protected. If you put it in the subpanel then just that circuit would be protected. I guess it depends on cost of everything and what you plan on plugging into the subpanel.



#37 positiveContact

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 03:11 PM

You could do it either way. If you put it in the main panel everything hooked up to the subpanel would be GFCI protected. If you put it in the subpanel then just that circuit would be protected. I guess it depends on cost of everything and what you plan on plugging into the subpanel.

 

other possible garage things would probably be the aforementioned future ecar chargers.  those probably don't require GFCI, right?



#38 matt6150

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 04:13 PM

other possible garage things would probably be the aforementioned future ecar chargers.  those probably don't require GFCI, right?

Maybe if you are charging in a puddle of snow possibly. Not sure really. Sometimes devices don't act quite right either plugged into GFCI. I guess I would do some research on that.



#39 positiveContact

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 04:32 PM

So yes, the types of breakers are listed on the panel. I'm assuming Eaton with the same letters is equivalent to Cutler-hammer.

#40 3rd party JKor

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 05:52 PM

What amperage is required for e-car charging? 100A seems like a lot for that.


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