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the going electric thread


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#1 Mando

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 05:40 AM

Maybe other people will have general questions or topics and that's cool.  Right now I'm starting this for me.

 

So after some discussion here and considerations for the future I've decided put a single 240V (unless someone tells me I should have two side by side or something) out near where I brew in the garage.  Some folks (Matt) suggested putting a sub-panel in the garage and I think this could be a good option as well but I'm going to save that for a future upgrade if needed.  with my layout i could add it in and even reroute the existing 240V outlet I'm talking about putting in to it if I needed to.

 

First thing is I ordered a pretty cheap multimeter and no touch voltage detector from amazon.  Safety first!

 

One of the first things I came across was which kind of outlet.

 

50A:

 

black-leviton-electrical-outlets-recepta

 

30A:

 

black-leviton-electrical-outlets-recepta


here is the layout of my house.  front of the house and garage doors are on the bottom of that picture.  Red box is my current main panel in the basement.  Orange line would be what I would run along the basement ceiling and then out into the garage and up the wall to be near where my kettle is located.  gray box is likely future subpanel location so I figure I could unhook from the main panel and just pull that wire through the wall under the new subpanel and hook it in if needed.

 

WFLzjWV.png


Edited by Mando, 02 May 2020 - 05:41 AM.

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#2 JKor

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 06:53 AM

50A. Buy a 50A Spa Panel. It has a GFCI built in then run from that to your 50A outlet. Or wire it directly to your control panel. I had mine wired directly to my control panel at my last place.
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#3 Mando

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 06:58 AM

50A. Buy a 50A Spa Panel. It has a GFCI built in then run from that to your 50A outlet. Or wire it directly to your control panel. I had mine wired directly to my control panel at my last place.

 

I'm not quite following the order here.

 

main panel -> 50A breaker in main panel -> wiring up to garage -> then?

 

originally I was thinking this:

 

main panel -> 50A breaker in main panel -> wiring up to garage -> 240V outlet on the wall -> 240V cord -> SSR/controller -> cord -> element -> wort -> beer -> my mouf  ;)


Edited by Mando, 02 May 2020 - 07:01 AM.

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#4 matt6150

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 11:22 AM

What JKor is saying is basically what I said. Spa panel=sub panel. If you buy a Spa/hot tub panel it somes with a GFCI breaker in it, which you will need. Knowing your future thinking of possible electric car that may not be the best option if you are planing on putting in a 100amp sub panel later. I'm going to assume the electric setup you want to build will only require 1 heating element. If that is the case you don't really need 50amp right now. If you don't want to put a subpanel in now you can just run a 30 amp circuit to your garage to an outlet. So you would need a 30amp GFCI breaker for your main panel, 10 gauge wire(4 wires total) and a 30amp 4 wire outlet meant for a dryer or something. Then you can plug your control panel in and have 240 and 120 volt inside.


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#5 Mando

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 11:26 AM

What JKor is saying is basically what I said. Spa panel=sub panel. If you buy a Spa/hot tub panel it somes with a GFCI breaker in it, which you will need. Knowing your future thinking of possible electric car that may not be the best option if you are planing on putting in a 100amp sub panel later. I'm going to assume the electric setup you want to build will only require 1 heating element. If that is the case you don't really need 50amp right now. If you don't want to put a subpanel in now you can just run a 30 amp circuit to your garage to an outlet. So you would need a 30amp GFCI breaker for your main panel, 10 gauge wire(4 wires total) and a 30amp 4 wire outlet meant for a dryer or something. Then you can plug your control panel in and have 240 and 120 volt inside.

 

good to know.  why is GFCI so expensive?  still looking at over $70 just for the breaker even at 30A.


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#6 matt6150

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 11:33 AM

Yeah not cheap, I think I paid about $100 for my 50amp one. If you are lucky you can find a sub panel later that you can put your GFCI breaker into.


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#7 Mando

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 11:56 AM

Where does the luck come in later? Will it only for in certain panels?
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#8 matt6150

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 12:15 PM

Every brand has their own breakers. And some brands have different styles. So lets say you have a Square D main panel in your home and you get a GFCI breaker for it now. Hopefully you can find a Square D sub panel down the road that you can use that breaker in.


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#9 Mando

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 12:25 PM

Every brand has their own breakers. And some brands have different styles. So lets say you have a Square D main panel in your home and you get a GFCI breaker for it now. Hopefully you can find a Square D sub panel down the road that you can use that breaker in.

 

oh damn!  I'm glad you told me that.  I figured breakers were standardized.  looks like I have a cutler-hammer.

 

Kqlj2bs.jpg


Edited by Mando, 02 May 2020 - 12:26 PM.

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#10 Mando

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 03:39 PM

it appears to be owned by eaton now.  so I'm curious - how the F do you add stuff to an old panel if you can't get breakers for it anymore?

 

rhetorical: why would this not be standardized?  someone needs a swift kick in the nuts.


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#11 Mando

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 03:46 PM

hmmmm - I haven't determined yet how to tell if a breaker will work with my panel or not....


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#12 HVB

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 03:54 PM

it appears to be owned by eaton now. so I'm curious - how the F do you add stuff to an old panel if you can't get breakers for it anymore?

rhetorical: why would this not be standardized? someone needs a swift kick in the nuts.


You can still get breakers for most panels, unless you have a Pushmatic... Lol. Normally I would take a breaker out and compare to what is at the store but that is not optimal these days.
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#13 Mando

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 03:56 PM

You can still get breakers for most panels, unless you have a Pushmatic... Lol. Normally I would take a breaker out and compare to what is at the store but that is not optimal these days.

 

are there a few types of breakers that are interchangeable or something?  given that this will likely be one of the most expensive parts of the job I'm hoping to get it right!


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#14 Mando

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 03:59 PM

hard to read here but on my 30A breaker for the AC system you can see it says "BR230" on the breaker.  it's not gfci so I'm not sure if this helps.

 

DvebF0D.jpg


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#15 Mando

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 04:04 PM

is this what I'm probably looking for?

 

https://www.lowes.co...eaker/999977476

 

has BR in the name, is GFCI  :unsure:


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#16 matt6150

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 04:59 PM

As Drez said you should definitely be able to find a breaker for your panel. Check out the old Cutler Hammer box I have and I found a breaker. The one you linked sure looks right. And I'm guessing the BR is the type. You can always take the panel cover off and compare the side profile as well.
IMG-20200502-195400.jpg
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#17 Mando

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 03:36 AM

just so I understand is this pretty much just a fit/mechanical issue?  there is nothing electrically different between the different brands right?


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#18 Mando

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 05:37 AM

this is the closest breaker I could find at HD: https://www.homedepo...230CS/206677556

 

I think it's pretty much the same thing despite looking a little different.  I'm more partial to HD since I have one right in town and the Lowe's is a couple of towns over (in case I need to return).


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#19 matt6150

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 06:29 AM

Yeah as long as it fits you are good. I'm sure that's the right one. If not you can just bring it back.
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#20 matt6150

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 06:35 AM

When looking for wire check out the wire rack sold by the foot. Sometimes that can be cheaper than the big rolls depending on the length you need. It will be a orange wire labeled as 10-3, that will have 4 wires in it. I'm guessing you are running it in a conduit in your garage?
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