239 replies to this topic

[positiveContact]

If you do get some I would throw some $ in for some.

 

ditto.

[neddles]

So if you want some, sign up here and if I need to I'll get the 10lb jar.

+1

[Brauer]

Yeah that's the idea. Do we really have anything objective (or subjective really) that tells us it will? Or is this still just an idea right now because we are assuming that all things oxidative must be bad.

I guess I wouldn't expect beers to come out "smoother and cleaner", necessarily. A lot of people might perceive a little dulling of the edges of beer flavors as smoother. I remember hearing of a preference test where people were split down the middle when asked to compare fresh beer to older, pasteurized beer.

That's one reason I like the experiments that determine if people can taste the difference between two beers instead of asking which they prefer.

[Big Nake]

Is it possible that people typically drink a beer with some level of oxidation and expect it to be there?

[HVB]

Is it possible that people typically drink a beer with some level of oxidation and expect it to be there?

IMO yes.

[positiveContact]

IMO yes.

 

yeup.  on some styles I even think it helps a little.  higher gravity dark beers seem to be better with a bit of age (to a point of course).

[cavman]

yeup.  on some styles I even think it helps a little.  higher gravity dark beers seem to be better with a bit of age (to a point of course).

A little on. Barrel age Barleywine or Old Ale is fine. Also on certain sour styles like a Flanders it is also acceptable.

[denny]

I am not making any process changes to my system.  If I can add something like brewtan and get some benefit I will do it but I like my beers and I like my system the way it is.

 

Exactly how I feel, too.

[denny]

They are going to try and order it. You only need 8gper barrel in the mash and 5g/barrel in the boil, So for homebrewer sizes 100g would go a LONG way. I'm going to see what  3lb will go for with shipping and then you guys can get some from me.

 

So if you want some, sign up here and if I need to I'll get the 10lb jar.

 

Anyone on the AHA forum that wants some too if you guys are talking over there.

 

Again, the recommendation form a guy who is an award wining homebrewer who uses it, is a PhD and heads up the US part of the company is to use 1/4 tsp. in your strike water and 1/2 tsp., mixed in a slurry, for the last 15 min. of the boil.  That's what I intend to do for my trial brew next week.

Is it possible that people typically drink a beer with some level of oxidation and expect it to be there?

 

Absolutely.  Barleywine, old ale, and others.

[Big Nake]

Again, the recommendation form a guy who is an award wining homebrewer who uses it, is a PhD and heads up the US part of the company is to use 1/4 tsp. in your strike water and 1/2 tsp., mixed in a slurry, for the last 15 min. of the boil.  That's what I intend to do for my trial brew next week.

Yeah, that's a slam dunk... very easy to do. I will just be looking at some spots where I think I was doing some things that could have/should have been done differently all along but I'm not going to completely change my process.

[MtnBrewer]

Is it possible that people typically drink a beer with some level of oxidation and expect it to be there?

 

yeup.  on some styles I even think it helps a little.  higher gravity dark beers seem to be better with a bit of age (to a point of course).

No question. We did a Bigfoot vertical recently and one bottle was from 1996. It was heavily oxidized because of the screw caps they used to use. But it was amazing. It had turned into something beyond beer.

[denny]

They are going to try and order it. You only need 8gper barrel in the mash and 5g/barrel in the boil, So for homebrewer sizes 100g would go a LONG way. I'm going to see what  3lb will go for with shipping and then you guys can get some from me.

 

So if you want some, sign up here and if I need to I'll get the 10lb jar.

 

Anyone on the AHA forum that wants some too if you guys are talking over there.

 

 

Thanks, Rich.  I'll pass the offer along.

[Big Nake]

No question. We did a Bigfoot vertical recently and one bottle was from 1996. It was heavily oxidized because of the screw caps they used to use. But it was amazing. It had turned into something beyond beer.

I think that the descriptor of "cardboard" threw me off because I don't taste cardboard-like flavors and I also understand that it's just ONE of the descriptors for oxidation. When I have a beer that didn't come out as I would expect, I almost always know why... hops had a funky, stinky-gym sock taste, yeast was starting to mutate, we've discussed some of the Weyermann pilsner products coming out as "dirty", etc. But there are times when everything seems to fall pretty much in line but there is something in the background that you pick up on the back of your tongue and it's a character that just makes the beer seem "not smooth". The finish is a little marred by something. This is the best way I can describe it because it doesn't really have a flavor, necessarily. My guess is that I'm experiencing higher-than-normal oxidation. In discussing this topic, I think I have learned that I don't handle my wort as carefully as other brewers so there is something learned right there. Handling things a little quieter (less splashing) plus the addition of this Brewtan B could be all I need to adjust. Skipping the racking of the beer to an unpurged secondary may be another thing I'll implement. I'm going to try to shorten my grain-to-glass timeframe and try to get around O2-pickup spots in the process.

[cavman]

I think that the descriptor of "cardboard" threw me off because I don't taste cardboard-like flavors and I also understand that it's just ONE of the descriptors for oxidation. When I have a beer that didn't come out as I would expect, I almost always know why... hops had a funky, stinky-gym sock taste, yeast was starting to mutate, we've discussed some of the Weyermann pilsner products coming out as "dirty", etc. But there are times when everything seems to fall pretty much in line but there is something in the background that you pick up on the back of your tongue and it's a character that just makes the beer seem "not smooth". The finish is a little marred by something. This is the best way I can describe it because it doesn't really have a flavor, necessarily. My guess is that I'm experiencing higher-than-normal oxidation. In discussing this topic, I think I have learned that I don't handle my wort as carefully as other brewers so there is something learned right there. Handling things a little quieter (less splashing) plus the addition of this Brewtan B could be all I need to adjust. Skipping the racking of the beer to an unpurged secondary may be another thing I'll implement. I'm going to try to shorten my grain-to-glass timeframe and try to get around O2-pickup spots in the process.

Oxidation in big malty beers can come off sherry like.

[MtnBrewer]

Yeah the "cardboard" descriptor throws a lot of people off. I don't think I've encountered one oxidized that badly in judging ever. Usually it's more of the "something's not quite right" type of thing that you described. To me it's usually more of a musty or stale aroma or flavor. Or over time the beer just goes a bit lifeless.

 

In the vertical that we did, we could observe the beers getting more and more oxidized the older they got. There was also a discontinuity when they stopped using twist off caps and went to regular pop top crown caps. I think that was around 2008 give or take. The beers older than that were much more oxidized than younger ones. But the point I'm getting at is that somewhere in there, the beer gets as oxidized as it's going to get and then starts evolving in a different way and actually starts getting better again. I can only compare it to wine. Wine as it ages develops a bouquet. Young wine doesn't have it; only well aged wines do. And that's what that 1996 Bigfoot was like.

[positiveContact]

how long do you think I can let a beer age/oxidize?  I have a few bottles of old ale in my basement from jan/feb 2010.  it's been a while since I cracked one.  I thought it might be interesting to have one with my son when he's old enough for that sort of thing.  how many people get to try a beer older than they are?

Edited by Evil_Morty, 11 May 2016 - 12:01 PM.

[HVB]

how long do you think I can let a beer age/oxidize?  I have a few bottles of old ale in my basement from jan/feb 2010.  it's been a while since I cracked one.  I thought it might be interesting to have one with my son when he's old enough for that sort of thing.  how many people get to try a beer older than they are?

I have a Cantillion from 1999 sitting in my cellar I am debating if I should open or not.  I think I have some home brew from 2008/2009 that I should try one of these days.

[cavman]

I have a Cantillion from 1999 sitting in my cellar I am debating if I should open or not.  I think I have some home brew from 2008/2009 that I should try one of these days.

Lambic is different but yeah you should probably open it. Is it the gueuze?

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

I've definitely had beers that smell like cardboard or wet paper. Conversely some sherry like oxidation can make certain beers magical. Oxidation is a fickle mistress.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I think MtnBrewer is spot on. Of the oxidized ones I've had, cardboard isn't really the flavor, just stale, muted malt, and unpleasant bitterness no matter how light it is. You definitely know when you encounter it.

I've definitely had beers that smell like cardboard or wet paper. Conversely some sherry like oxidation can make certain beers magical. Oxidation is a fickle mistress.

 

Sherry is another one... not pleasant when it's not supposed to be there though.