67 replies to this topic

[SchwanzBrewer]

I too have some Alt/Red X enthusiasm and plan a batch after my next batch, some time 1st week of November. Will be perfect for the frigid temps that will probably never come. Anyone that wants to play along, please post pics of your Alt's / Reds.........

 

I wish I was a better photographer. 

[Brauer]

I made a small (650ml + ½ cup DME) starter for it yesterday. ...and then try like hell to keep this beer fermenting near 60° to keep it clean.

That's about a third to half the starter you should make for a beer like this, even if your yeast was packed yesterday. Worse if it's older. A starter that size doesn't really support much yeast growth, the yeast mostly just ferments the sugar. Alt's are usually pitched at lager pitch rates, or close to them, due to the cool ferment, high attenuation and clean profile desired.

 

Also, I'd raise the ferment temp after a few days, or this yeast will drop early and the beer won't finish clean. It's not going to be happy at 60F, once fermentation starts to slow.

[Big Nake]

That's about a third to half the starter you should make for a beer like this, even if your yeast was packed yesterday. Worse if it's older. A starter that size doesn't really support much yeast growth, the yeast mostly just ferments the sugar. Alt's are usually pitched at lager pitch rates, or close to them, due to the cool ferment, high attenuation and clean profile desired.   Also, I'd raise the ferment temp after a few days, or this yeast will drop early and the beer won't finish clean. It's not going to be happy at 60F, once fermentation starts to slow.

I have been told many times that my starters are too small. Know what? I either don't have an issue or I can't detect an issue. I have made starters this size for lagers and had them come out stellar. I don't know what to say but I have never made giant starters, stepped up a starter, etc. I do make relatively small beers so that may help. Also, on the temp... I plan to go at a low temp until fermentation slows and then let it rise. I plan to swirl it occasionally and be patient with it. It will also sit for x amount of time in a secondary at room temp which you might call an extended d-rest (although I may not call it that for an ale yeast). I don't plan to rest it until I'm sure it's fully fermented. Also, I took a whiff of this active starter today and it smells pretty nice. It must have been the Wyeast equivalent (or similar) which I think was 1338 that did not sit well with my tastebuds.

[Genesee Ted]

My "alt" will just be 100% red x and then hopped with hallertau for everything (FWH, 5, 0) except bittering.  I plan to use magnum for that.  It may not be 100% authentic but I think it will be a nice change for me.

Ding ding ding!

 

A winner is you!  This will be a great beer.  

[Brauer]

I have been told many times that my starters are too small. Know what? I either don't have an issue or I can't detect an issue.

I'm just trying to make sure I don't hear complaints about funky flavors.

[Big Nake]

I'm just trying to make sure I don't hear complaints about funky flavors.

I hear that but I would make a starter like this for almost any yeast I use and I get great results that way. I also occasionally use the yeast from just one smack pack (smacked and swollen) for a 1.050 ale without issue. If I mention that the WLP011 has a funky flavor it can't be from this starter because ALL yeasts I use would have them. Cheers.

[neddles]

I took my vial of WLP011 out of the fridge on Monday to let it warm up and I made a small (650ml + ½ cup DME) starter for it yesterday. I oxygenated the starter a bit, added a small amount of Wyeast nutrient, added the yeast and got it on the stirplate Tuesday morning and it's foaming and active right now. Pretty quick turnaround. I realize I'm on an "alt tangent" and nettles started a RedX thread but if nothing else, maybe we can compare notes on how we like (or dislike?) the WLP011. I am probably going to get everything ready and have an early brew morning tomorrow (Thurs 10/2) and then try like hell to keep this beer fermenting near 60° to keep it clean.

Did your vial of 011 wake up ok? Mine was dated best by 5.27.14 but it took 36 hrs. to wake up and get active in a half liter starter.

[Big Nake]

Did your vial of 011 wake up ok? Mine was dated best by 5.27.14 but it took 36 hrs. to wake up and get active in a half liter starter.

Did you have it on a stirplate? Mine woke up very nicely and I was surprised. The date was April 2014 and I did allow it to warm up for about 24 hours, then made the starter for it with some nutrient and I also oxygenated it although many here said they thought it was pointless and would not help but I feel pure O2 has got to be beneficial to something that has been bottled up for x amount of time. Then I got it on the stirplate and after 24 hours it was active, white and foamy. I made the beer early this morning and it's currently in primary in a tub of water at about 60°. This starter smelled pretty good to me so my fingers are crossed that I like how the beer comes out. Cheers.

[neddles]

Yeah it was on a stirplate. I've had older yeasts take that long to wake up but didn't expect this one to take that long. That's why I asked. No worries, it smells good and it will get stepped up once before I brew sometime late next week. 

[Big Nake]

I just went down to the beer bunker and gave this thing a gentle swirl and I'm already getting some activity in the airlock. I think I pitched around 10am this morning so 5+ hours which I consider very good under the 'older yeast and smaller starter' circumstances. Temp on the probe thermo shows a bit over 60° at the moment and I will try to keep it there until the end of primary fermentation.

[neddles]

Made this Thursday and here is the final iteration. OG came out a little higher than expected. The Santiam was supposed to go in at 10min but because of a minor kid crisis in the house it went in at 5min instead. The wort going into the fermentor was a deep orange-red color. I pitched a healthy load of 011 from a stepped starter and let it go at 60F for 12 hours. This ramped up to 62F by 24hrs. and I have since cranked it up to 64F.

 

This Red-X is interesting. It had a really nice deep malty smell and flavor. Also, chewing on it showed different individual grains tasted different. Never noticed that with other base malts before. Some tasted pretty much like Munich while others were sweeter. Some were even sourdoughy like Special Roast, if you have ever tasted that one.

 

Alt-ish Red 

6 gallons

OG 1.051

SRM 14

IBU 34

 

10# Red-X (98%)

3 oz. Fawcett Pale Chocolate (2%)

 

Mash @152 for 90min.

 

18g Gr. Magnum @ 60min.

15g Santiam @ 5min

 

WLP011

Edited by nettles, 18 October 2014 - 06:09 AM.

[Big Nake]

Made this Thursday and here is the final iteration. OG came out a little higher than expected. The Santiam was supposed to go in at 10min but because of a minor kid crisis in the house it went in at 5min instead. The wort going into the fermentor was a deep orange-red color. I pitched a healthy load of 011 from a stepped starter and let it go at 60F for 12 hours. This ramped up to 62F by 24hrs. and I have since cranked it up to 64F.
 
This Red-X is interesting. It had a really nice deep malty smell and flavor. Also, chewing on it showed different individual grains tasted different. Never noticed that with other base malts before. Some tasted pretty much like Munich while others were sweeter. Some were even sourdoughy like Special Roast, if you have ever tasted that one.
 
Alt-ish Red 
6 gallons
OG 1.051
SRM 14
IBU 34
 
10# Red-X (98%)
3 oz. Fawcett Pale Chocolate (2%)
 
Mash @152 for 90min.
 
18g Gr. Magnum @ 60min.
15g Santiam @ 5min
 
WLP011

I like the sound of it. I'm looking forward to this Alt I made with 011 and I'm also looing forward to using the RedX. I might use this 2206 Bavarian Lager yeast and the Mandarina Bavaria hops with the RedX. I say that because if something is off on this 011 (I have very little experience with it), I don't want to waste these hops and the RedX with a yeast I might not care for. Keep us posted as this one goes along. Cheers.

Edited by KenLenard, 18 October 2014 - 07:40 AM.

[neddles]

Couple of things. My hydrometer sample of this Red-X beer was very promising. Really pleasant deep bread/toasty malt character. FG was 1.012 as of yesterday with WLP011. My ferment smelled really good save for a touch of sulfur about the time the krausen started to fall. Did not taste or smell the sulfur in yesterday's sample at all. Will probably keg it tonight or tomorrow pending another FG check.

[Poptop]

nettles, just to confirm, you made this beer on the 16th and it's hitting keg by the weekend?  Maybe a silly question but just curious.  Thanks,

[neddles]

nettles, just to confirm, you made this beer on the 16th and it's hitting keg by the weekend?  Maybe a silly question but just curious.  Thanks,

Yep. First go with this yeast so I will gravity check it again tonight or tomorrow morning. If it's stable and still tastes right (and it should, it tasted great yesterday) I'll keg it and bring it down to 33-34 in the fridge to condition.

[Big Nake]

I put a couple of RedX kernels in my mouth today when I was measuring it out. Very interesting flavor... I really like it. I'm looking forward to this beer now that I have sampled the malt a little bit. I'm also very interested in seeing the color of the clear, red wort as it goes to the fermenter. Cheers.

[Poptop]

Thank you Sir

[neddles]

Made this Thursday and here is the final iteration. OG came out a little higher than expected. The Santiam was supposed to go in at 10min but because of a minor kid crisis in the house it went in at 5min instead. The wort going into the fermentor was a deep orange-red color. I pitched a healthy load of 011 from a stepped starter and let it go at 60F for 12 hours. This ramped up to 62F by 24hrs. and I have since cranked it up to 64F.

 

This Red-X is interesting. It had a really nice deep malty smell and flavor. Also, chewing on it showed different individual grains tasted different. Never noticed that with other base malts before. Some tasted pretty much like Munich while others were sweeter. Some were even sourdoughy like Special Roast, if you have ever tasted that one.

 

Alt-ish Red 

6 gallons

OG 1.051

SRM 14

IBU 34

 

10# Red-X (98%)

3 oz. Fawcett Pale Chocolate (2%)

 

Mash @152 for 90min.

 

18g Gr. Magnum @ 60min.

15g Santiam @ 5min

 

WLP011

I made this about 6 wks ago and… well... here it is. And this is what it looks like in daylight. Call it whatever color you want but I'd say it's red. It looks even more red/ruby when exposed to incandescent lighting but I though that daylight would be the most universal for a pic.

 

It is a terrific beer. Crystal clear as you can see by the refracted tree line out my window. Light to medium bodied it finished out at 1.012. It has a deep malty flavor as you would expect. Very pleasant and less over the top malty than I would have expected from an all munich beer. you could easily drink this all day. It finishes with a really nice toasty malt note and you would swear there is the faintest hint of vanilla in the background that lingers in the aftertaste. I didn't expect that vanilla note and can't say if that is from the Red-X or from the TF pale chocolate but I like it.

 

If I wanted to nit-pick this beer I might change the bitterness. It is smooth for sure but there seems to be just a little too much of it. Not sure why, 34 IBU seemed pretty reasonable to me, but maybe it just comes through stronger here. Seems like it may be hiding a bit of malt flavor. Would probably back off 4-5 IBU next time with the same bag of Gr. Magnum.

 

[matt6150]

Looks really good!! I think my next brew is going to be another red-x attempt. Still have about half a sack worth.

[Brauer]

I think that's the nicest looking red beer I've ever seen.