236 replies to this topic

[positiveContact]

So? the advice that is oft repeated here on this board, that, after terminal gravity is reached, it's good to let the yeast "finish up their work" is bunk then? clean up diacetyl etc..?

 

who said not to do that?

[SchwanzBrewer]

So? the advice that is oft repeated here on this board, that, after terminal gravity is reached, it's good to let the yeast "finish up their work" is bunk then? clean up diacetyl etc..?

 

No. All basser was saying was that fermentation was complete, not conditioning. Fermentation being the consumption of sugars by yeast. The final gravity has been reached. Most of us set it and forget it and it finishes and cleans up on it's own. We crash it, keg it, and drink it. It can go faster if you know what you are doing and are set up to take samples without introducing infection of oxygen, but for most homebrewers that trade off isn't necessary. 

[davelew]

I do agree that it is more susceptible to infection, but based on that concern, homebrewers shouldn't make lagers. I've certainly never had a lager finish in 5 days.

 

I have.  It's all about pitching enough healthy yeast.  Sure, yeast work slower at 50 dF than at 65 dF, but you also have around twice as many cells to properly pitch a lager yeast.

[Clintama]

 

I have.  It's all about pitching enough healthy yeast.  Sure, yeast work slower at 50 dF than at 65 dF, but you also have around twice as many cells to properly pitch a lager yeast.

I've pitched the recommended amount of yeast and probably went a little over that amount, but my lagers take 2-3 weeks. Very close to the amount of time it takes my ales fermenting at the same temperature. I'm not advocating one way over another, but having a slow, steady fermentation is not a bad thing at all, IMO.

[Mya]

 

No. All basser was saying was that fermentation was complete, not conditioning. Fermentation being the consumption of sugars by yeast. The final gravity has been reached. Most of us set it and forget it and it finishes and cleans up on it's own. We crash it, keg it, and drink it. It can go faster if you know what you are doing and are set up to take samples without introducing infection of oxygen, but for most homebrewers that trade off isn't necessary. 

if you are crashing as soon as terminal gravity is reached, which seems to be what is being advocated (I could be misunderstanding) aren't you forcing the yeast into dormancy and dropping them out, how are they going to "clean up after themselves" at 38F?

[positiveContact]

if you are crashing as soon as terminal gravity is reached, which seems to be what is being advocated (I could be misunderstanding) aren't you forcing the yeast into dormancy and dropping them out, how are they going to "clean up after themselves" at 38F?

 

not sure if that was implied either.  I like to leave it for at least a week so there are a few days post fermentation for this kind of stuff to happen.  then I cold crash.

[SchwanzBrewer]

if you are crashing as soon as terminal gravity is reached, which seems to be what is being advocated (I could be misunderstanding) aren't you forcing the yeast into dormancy and dropping them out, how are they going to "clean up after themselves" at 38F?

 

They don't crash, they probably actually warm it up. I think you all are reading too much into his statements. Once the beer is done cleaning up they cold crash. Nothing new about this process.

[Mya]

 

They don't crash, they probably actually warm it up. I think you all are reading too much into his statements. Once the beer is done cleaning up they cold crash. Nothing new about this process.

 

which is the process most of us follow, including me, but it's usually 7 days primary- 7 days secondary then crash in the keg, and force carb, which I do the slow way, so no way I am getting a a clear fully carbed IPA in the glass in under 21 days

 

now if I had a centrifuge....

[positiveContact]

 

which is the process most of us follow, including me, but it's usually 7 days primary- 7 days secondary then crash in the keg, and force carb, which I do the slow way, so no way I am getting a a clear fully carbed IPA in the glass in under 21 days

 

now if I had a centrifuge....

 

yeah - I'm usually closer to a month before it starts getting to a point I would consider "clear".  depends on the beer/yeast though.

[Mya]

 

yeah - I'm usually closer to a month before it starts getting to a point I would consider "clear".  depends on the beer/yeast though.

I do have a filter :ducks for cover:

 

but I don't use it much

[SchwanzBrewer]

 

which is the process most of us follow, including me, but it's usually 7 days primary- 7 days secondary then crash in the keg, and force carb, which I do the slow way, so no way I am getting a a clear fully carbed IPA in the glass in under 21 days

 

now if I had a centrifuge....

 

If you could take readings for the FG 2-3x a day and determine the exact hour you needed to start warming it up to start the clean up cycle, then took taste samples 2x a day to determine when it's ready to cold crash, then cold crashed the hour it was ready, you could probably get the beer into a keg and carbonate within 11-12 days at a reasonable clarity and it wouldn't have off flavors even without filtering.

 

This is for a 1.050 gravity beer, no dry hopping. As homebrewers we don't want to take all those samples because we risk infection and staling, but it could be done with the right equipment and time to make all the checks. It takes us 4-5 weeks because we all have jobs and other stuff to do rather than focus all our energy on the beer.

[Mya]

 

If you could take readings for the FG 2-3x a day and determine the exact hour you needed to start warming it up to start the clean up cycle, then took taste samples 2x a day to determine when it's ready to cold crash, then cold crashed the hour it was ready, you could probably get the beer into a keg and carbonate within 11-12 days at a reasonable clarity and it wouldn't have off flavors even without filtering.

 

This is for a 1.050 gravity beer, no dry hopping. As homebrewers we don't want to take all those samples because we risk infection and staling, but it could be done with the right equipment and time to make all the checks. It takes us 4-5 weeks because we all have jobs and other stuff to do rather than focus all our energy on the beer.

yeah most most of do our brewing tasks when they are convenient for us, not when a production schedule demands it, pros have to get that fermentor space freed up, and have set up their equipment and processes accordingly

[MolBasser]

if you are crashing as soon as terminal gravity is reached, which seems to be what is being advocated (I could be misunderstanding) aren't you forcing the yeast into dormancy and dropping them out, how are they going to "clean up after themselves" at 38F?

For Pale Ale and Torpedo diacetyl cleanup is pretty quick and we chill at 5 days for both beers.

 

Torpedo is tank conditioned (carbonated in the fermenter) and is good to drink as soon as it hits the bottle which can be in as little as 14 days.  Pale Ale has a little waiting time for the bottle conditioning.

 

We have, in the past, brewed an ale from pitching to package and drinkable in 12 days. 

 

MolBasser

[Mya]

For Pale Ale and Torpedo diacetyl cleanup is pretty quick and we chill at 5 days for both beers.

 

Torpedo is tank conditioned (carbonated in the fermenter) and is good to drink as soon as it hits the bottle which can be in as little as 14 days.  Pale Ale has a little waiting time for the bottle conditioning.

 

We have, in the past, brewed an ale from pitching to package and drinkable in 12 days. 

 

MolBasser

damn, what are your pitching rates and what do you do to chill proof, that's just straight up quick

[MolBasser]

Pitch rates are proprietary.  Suffice to say that we pitch enough.  Homebrewers habitutally underpitch.

 

Chilling is just that, getting the beer under 30F and we use PVPP for the main brands as a stabilizer.

 

MolBasser

[Brauer]

SN filters, don't they?

[Genesee Ted]

Pitch rates are proprietary.  Suffice to say that we pitch enough.  Homebrewers habitutally underpitch.

 

Chilling is just that, getting the beer under 30F and we use PVPP for the main brands as a stabilizer.

 

MolBasser

So much this.  

 

If any of you haven't yet read Chris White and JZ's book Yeast, do yourself a favor and read it.  Just because the vial or smack pack says that it is enough, doesn't mean that it is.  It is almost impossible for a homebrewer to overpitch.  Maybe if you had a bunch of cakes that you pitched all into a small batch.  

[Genesee Ted]

I think I'll stay with the old advice.

The old advice is to take three weeks to ferment?

 

By all means, do what you do if it works for you. 

[Clintama]

The old advice is to take three weeks to ferment?

 

By all means, do what you do if it works for you. 

I never said that, in fact I said I wasn't advocating fermenting in one way or the other. I merely offered up a different approach that works with my system. If you don't wish to try it, that's absolutely fine with me, but I can tell you with 100% certainty, it produces great beer.

 

I'll still stay with the old advice.

[positiveContact]

So much this.  

 

If any of you haven't yet read Chris White and JZ's book Yeast, do yourself a favor and read it.  Just because the vial or smack pack says that it is enough, doesn't mean that it is.  It is almost impossible for a homebrewer to overpitch.  Maybe if you had a bunch of cakes that you pitched all into a small batch.  

 

my 5L flask and stir plate disagree