137 replies to this topic

[denny]

When's your book being released?

when it's done.

[Clintama]

when it's done.

Seriously, got an estimated date? You gonna send me an autographed copy?

Edited by brewboy, 01 March 2013 - 11:37 AM.

[zymot]

I've already discovered that it has little impact to my beers, so I'll continue on.

You should write a book

My gut tells me that is not a case of pitch rates do not matter.It is a case homebrewers do not under pitch as much as some people think.As In: Direct pitching a vial of White Labs is not a big sin against homebrewing.

[Genesee Ted]

I am still pretty amazed that anyone would say that pitch rate doesn't matter. There is a lot of research that says otherwise. My experience for sure says otherwise. If you are happy stressing out your yeast, don't bother using O2 either. It will still turn into beer. If that works for you, fine. I just question the logic of skipping the simple step of making a starter. By all means, brew how you want, but even if it "comes out fine", you could make it better. Also, Carlos, how did you create your own strain of yeast?

[SchwanzBrewer]

I just tapped a beautiful APA tonight. I'm in love.

[Clintama]

I am still pretty amazed that anyone would say that pitch rate doesn't matter. There is a lot of research that says otherwise. My experience for sure says otherwise. If you are happy stressing out your yeast, don't bother using O2 either. It will still turn into beer. If that works for you, fine. I just question the logic of skipping the simple step of making a starter. By all means, brew how you want, but even if it "comes out fine", you could make it better. Also, Carlos, how did you create your own strain of yeast?

I always make starters.

[positiveContact]

I don't think pitching rates are all that important to good beer, but definitely fermentation temperature.

I always make starters.

I'm glad to see that you do in fact think pitch rates are at least somewhat important in practice. if you want to argue about the correct pitch rate, fine. if you want to say that pitch rate doesn't matter that much, you are just plain wrong. there is a range where everything will generally work out all right sure but flavor profiles will change within this range. it's all about what you want the finished product to be like. once you have sanitation down yeast/fermentation is the most important thing to making good beer so I'm not sure why you think temperature is important but yeast pitching rates are not

[Genesee Ted]

I always make starters.

I guess I am missing something then. If the the pitch rate doesn't matter, why make a starter at all? Honest, not snarky question

[Clintama]

I guess I am missing something then. If the the pitch rate doesn't matter, why make a starter at all? Honest, not snarky question

I don't waste my time on a starter calculator that really means very little, You have no idea how many cells you have in your slurry unless you use a microscope and a hemocytometer. How can you possibly calculate the volume cells you need when you don't now what the cell concentration is in the your slurry.I either make what I feel is an adequate starter or pitch on a previous yeast cake.From that standpoint I don't always mae a starter. The previous batch is my starter.

[djinkc]

I don't waste my time on a starter calculator that really means very little, You have no idea how many cells you have in your slurry unless you use a microscope and a hemocytometer. How can you possibly calculate the volume cells you need when you don't now what the cell concentration is in the your slurry.I either make what I feel is an adequate starter or pitch on a previous yeast cake.From that standpoint I don't always mae a starter. The previous batch is my starter.

"Accurate and consistent pitch rates can be calculated after performing a cell count and viability test. When a microscope and proper lab equipment are not available, achieving proper pitch rates involves some guesswork and trial and error. With some simple guidelines to follow, a brewery without a lab can get consistent results when pitching harvested yeast.Estimates of cell counts can be made using percent yeast solids of the slurry. Percentage of yeast solids per volume of slurry can be estimated by allowing a sample to sediment under refrigeration and estimating the percent solids. Generally 40-60% yeast solids will correlate to 1.2 billion cells per ml. This will very with the yeast strain. By using this method with every brew, a brewer can achieve consistent pitch rates batch to batch resulting in a more consistent product. The following picture relates sedimentation to cell count."

[Clintama]

....achieving proper pitch rates involves some guesswork and trial and error

Hey, that's exactly what I do.

[positiveContact]

Hey, that's exactly what I do.

so you are saying you spend time with trial and error regarding pitching rates even though pitching rates aren't that important in your opinion? it seems like you created this backlash over nothing.

[djinkc]

so you are saying you spend time with trial and error regarding pitching rates even though pitching rates aren't that important in your opinion? it seems like you created this backlash over nothing.

sort of

[Clintama]

What I'm saying is that I don't rely on a calculator and if I did, I'm sure that half the time it would say that I'm under pitching or over pitching, yet I still get good beer. If you'd like to take this to a personal bashing of me for presenting my ideas, please go for it and have a good time.

Edited by brewboy, 05 March 2013 - 07:09 AM.

[matt6150]

Also, Carlos, how did you create your own strain of yeast?

Not Carlos, but a guy in my club is always coming up with different strains that he is making by mixing multiply strains together. Maybe he is referring to this.

[johnpreuss]

What I'm saying is that I don't rely on a calculator and if I did, I'm sure that half the time it would say that I'm under pitching or over pitching, yet I still get good beer. If you'd like to take this to a personal bashing of me for presenting my ideas, please go for it and have a good time.

I see where you're going with this. It's much the same as what I do. I generally make a 1.5 quart starter, not because its what a calculator says, more so that I use a 2 quart mason jar for my starters and that's what fits and I'm too cheep to buy a big flask. If I'm making a 1045 beer or lower I'll just pitch the pack/vial direct, if the beer is over 1060 I'll use a couple cups of slurry from a previous batch. YMMV but it works for me.

[Clintama]

I see where you're going with this. It's much the same as what I do. I generally make a 1.5 quart starter, not because its what a calculator says, more so that I use a 2 quart mason jar for my starters and that's what fits and I'm too cheep to buy a big flask. If I'm making a 1045 beer or lower I'll just pitch the pack/vial direct, if the beer is over 1060 I'll use a couple cups of slurry from a previous batch. YMMV but it works for me.

And I'll bet your beer is good and consistent from batch to batch.

[davelew]

What I'm saying is that I don't rely on a calculator and if I did, I'm sure that half the time it would say that I'm under pitching or over pitching, yet I still get good beer. If you'd like to take this to a personal bashing of me for presenting my ideas, please go for it and have a good time.

Pointing out that your idea ("pitching rates don't matter") is unsupported by any evidence gathered by you or by others is not personal bashing. Looking at the evidence which supports a given idea is part of the discussion, and it's a crucial part IMHO.

[Clintama]

it seems like you created this backlash over nothing.

Pointing out that your idea ("pitching rates don't matter") is unsupported by any evidence gathered by you or by others is not personal bashing. Looking at the evidence which supports a given idea is part of the discussion, and it's a crucial part IMHO.

That first quote was uncalled for.

[Clintama]

I don't think pitching rates are all that important to good beer, but definitely fermentation temperature.

Pointing out that your idea ("pitching rates don't matter") is unsupported by any evidence gathered by you or by others is not personal bashing. Looking at the evidence which supports a given idea is part of the discussion, and it's a crucial part IMHO.

If you're going to quote me, at least be accurate. I didn't say they "don't matter". Big difference.

Edited by brewboy, 05 March 2013 - 08:40 AM.