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Saison/Farmhouse with WLP670

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#1 Gus13

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:05 AM

Has anyone brewed with this yeast? I picked some up at my LHBS the other day. They had 2 vials come in with their regular shipment. I grabbed one to go with the others I was getting that day (I picked up the WLP500 for a Dubbel that is up next.) I'm looking to do my first Saison. I wanted to use this strain as it had the Brett included and I could let it sit and ferment until mid-Summer. So I have a two part post. One is I'm looking for a good partial recipe to brew a Saison using this yeast.Two is has anyone brewed with this yeast and how long is the typical fermentation period, temp, etc...Thanks for the help! Gus
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#2 armagh

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:23 AM

https://www.brews-br...saison-w-brett/I have used WLP670, as has at least one other denizen IIRC. As far as a saison recipe, any of the formulations on Framhouse Ales will work. I believe the rye saison in the link was made with 670. I started it at 68F for three days then let it drift up to room, probably 74F. You will get some funk, but not enough for a serious pellicle. I racked off primary, waited for the funk, left it 4-5 months and racked again when it had the desired level of tartness. I will probably bottle it up one of these weekends. My intent was more along the lines of a tart Belgian Pale Ale and I like where it landed.

Edited by armagh, 23 January 2013 - 08:27 AM.

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#3 Gus13

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:28 AM

Thanks!This is something I've worked up with iBrewMaster. Kind of a simple recipe but I think it will work.I really want to get the FG down a little more but not sure how just yet. I've just been plugging and playing.Fermentables:6.6 lbs Pilsen Light LME3.0 lbs White Malt Wheat0.5 lbs Rye Malt0.5 Golden Naked OatsHops:60 min - 2.0 ozs Phoenix30 min - 0.5 ozs Mosaic15 min - 0.5 ozs Mosaic(May sub for some Motueka in there some where)Yeast:WLP670 and ServomycesAny suggestions to this would be great! Hoping to get it in the fermenter and let it sit a couple months, maybe until May/June or so.
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#4 MtnBrewer

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:37 AM

Gus, my experience with rye is that you don't get a lot of flavor from it under about 15-20% of the grain bill. So for a 5 gallon batch, my rule of thumb is to use about 2 lbs. or more. Also, those oats are going to need to be mashed so when you steep your grains, keep the volume of water low (about 1.5 qts. per pound of grain) so that the pH stays in starch conversion range (5.2-ish). The enzymes in the wheat and/or rye will convert the oats for you.

#5 Gus13

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:11 AM

Gus, my experience with rye is that you don't get a lot of flavor from it under about 15-20% of the grain bill. So for a 5 gallon batch, my rule of thumb is to use about 2 lbs. or more. Also, those oats are going to need to be mashed so when you steep your grains, keep the volume of water low (about 1.5 qts. per pound of grain) so that the pH stays in starch conversion range (5.2-ish). The enzymes in the wheat and/or rye will convert the oats for you.

Rye isn't a necessity for me on this one. Anything you suggest malt wise I can sub it for? Don't want to go over 6.5%ABV on this one. Just want a tart, refreshing summer brew. I'm open to make any changes to this thrown together grain bill.
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#6 MtnBrewer

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:42 AM

Rye isn't a necessity for me on this one. Anything you suggest malt wise I can sub it for? Don't want to go over 6.5%ABV on this one. Just want a tart, refreshing summer brew. I'm open to make any changes to this thrown together grain bill.

I'd just leave it out then. The wheat will give it a little bit of a spicy flavor. I'd also leave out the oats, personally. I think the thicker mouthfeel you'll get from the oats works against the lighter body you're going for. Saisons don't really need a complicated grain bill. The yeast is the star of the show.

#7 Gus13

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:52 AM

I'd just leave it out then. The wheat will give it a little bit of a spicy flavor. I'd also leave out the oats, personally. I think the thicker mouthfeel you'll get from the oats works against the lighter body you're going for. Saisons don't really need a complicated grain bill. The yeast is the star of the show.

Perfect. That's something I was going for. Make the yeast the start and the Belgian approach of the simpler the better. Maybe add more wheat? Mix some Belgian Wheat Malt in with the White Wheat Malt.
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#8 MtnBrewer

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:57 AM

I think the amount is fine. As for Belgian vs. domestic, I'm not sure there's a radical difference there. I'd still mash it though, like I mentioned earlier.Where in MS are you? I'm originally from LA.

#9 Gus13

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 11:01 AM

I think the amount is fine. As for Belgian vs. domestic, I'm not sure there's a radical difference there. I'd still mash it though, like I mentioned earlier.Where in MS are you? I'm originally from LA.

Brandon now. I'm originally from right outside of Starkville in Louisville.I'm definitely going to have a mini mash with the wheat. I took out the oats and the rye. Need something to darken it a little bit and not get my OG/FG too high. Wanting to stay around 1.055-1.065 and FG of 1.009-1.0014ish. I'd like it dry as I can get it.
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#10 armagh

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 11:18 AM

I don't believe you'll have any attenuation problems with the OGs you're using, provided you let the temperature rise - or don't control at all.. Subject to check, I believe I started at 1.058 and am currently sitting at 1.004. I would also agree with the above discussion relative to keeping the grainbill simple. While some of the artisanal examples of Saison may have some of this and some of that, as FA points out, that's usually because the smaller breweries are taking what they can get from the bigger breweries. The best advice I've read (or reread) recently is in BLAM, where a number of brewers essentially say a grain bill should not read like a restaurant menu. Good luck.
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#11 Gus13

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 12:49 PM

I don't believe you'll have any attenuation problems with the OGs you're using, provided you let the temperature rise - or don't control at all.. Subject to check, I believe I started at 1.058 and am currently sitting at 1.004. I would also agree with the above discussion relative to keeping the grainbill simple. While some of the artisanal examples of Saison may have some of this and some of that, as FA points out, that's usually because the smaller breweries are taking what they can get from the bigger breweries. The best advice I've read (or reread) recently is in BLAM, where a number of brewers essentially say a grain bill should not read like a restaurant menu. Good luck.

I've been attached to the FA and WildBrews books for a couple weeks now. I have yet to get in the BLAM just yet but will soon. I'm thinking if I can use the LME and add some wheat grain to it that will be plenty to let the yeast do it's work and add the flavors. I'm intrigued with the Mosaic and Motueka hops so I've been wanting to do something with them as well. I love playing with recipes in those apps.
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#12 MtnBrewer

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:04 PM

I really like spicy hops in saisons to complement the spicy nature of the yeast. Some of my favorites are Tettnanger, Sazz and Santiam.

#13 Gus13

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:41 PM

I really like spicy hops in saisons to complement the spicy nature of the yeast. Some of my favorites are Tettnanger, Sazz and Santiam.

I love Saaz. I'm just a huge Belgian fan. Pretty much all I like to brew. All I have intentions of brewing right now anyway. I'm just interested in this Mosaic for something like a summer brew. My LHBS is all about Motueka right now so that popped in the mix.I have at least 5 Saison recipes made out to brew this summer. I'm hoping I can get the majority of them done. We will see. I need upgrades in fermenters and carboys first.
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#14 MtnBrewer

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:47 PM

I love Saaz. I'm just a huge Belgian fan. Pretty much all I like to brew. All I have intentions of brewing right now anyway. I'm just interested in this Mosaic for something like a summer brew. My LHBS is all about Motueka right now so that popped in the mix.I have at least 5 Saison recipes made out to brew this summer. I'm hoping I can get the majority of them done. We will see. I need upgrades in fermenters and carboys first.

Look around in the Recipe forum for my Dark Saison recipe. It's not actually my creation but I got it from a guy in my club.

#15 HVB

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:00 PM

Look around in the Recipe forum for my Dark Saison recipe. It's not actually my creation but I got it from a guy in my club.

This one? https://www.math.fsu...Landreman).html
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#16 MtnBrewer

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:11 PM

This one? https://www.math.fsu...Landreman).html

That one.

#17 Gus13

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:42 PM

Look around in the Recipe forum for my Dark Saison recipe. It's not actually my creation but I got it from a guy in my club.

This one? https://www.math.fsu...Landreman).html

That one.

Now ain't that spiffy. That's got a lot of the things are going into my dubbel. Except the fruit and honey. I'm still paranoid about fruit at the moment. Eventually I want raisins in my Dubbel or Quad. But I like that recipe a lot. And that software. I may have to download that.
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#18 MtnBrewer

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:49 PM

Now ain't that spiffy. That's got a lot of the things are going into my dubbel. Except the fruit and honey. I'm still paranoid about fruit at the moment. Eventually I want raisins in my Dubbel or Quad. But I like that recipe a lot. And that software. I may have to download that.

The fruit goes in near the end of the boil so nothing to be paranoid about.

#19 Gus13

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 03:11 PM

The fruit goes in near the end of the boil so nothing to be paranoid about.

It's some mental thing I can't kick. I really want to put raisins in a secondary. I don't know how much flavor they will give entirely. But I could do some at the end of the boil. Then figure out how to get them in the secondary. I had thought about bringing them to a boil in cognac and then soaking some oak chips in cognac. Putting all of that in a secondary and letting it sit a couple weeks.
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#20 armagh

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 03:42 PM

This one? https://www.math.fsu...Landreman).html

I caught an unmitigated ration of shit from the missus for screwing up her cast iron skillet on the dried cherry aspect of that recipe. I since learned to soak them first in boiled water to remove the oil and sugar with which they are coated.I really want to put raisins in a secondary.Use the currants, Luke.
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