46 replies to this topic

[BlKtRe]

I use magnums across the board and don't get what you describe about your beer. From lite straw colored beers to heavy ipa.

[djinkc]

I use magnums across the board and don't get what you describe about your beer. From lite straw colored beers to heavy ipa.

Same here, our water is similar. I've had no problems with Gr. Magnum overbittering except when it was a misjudgement on my part.

Everytime I start getting a handle on water chemistry I get bored and quit reading. Guess we're lucky.

Either that or Ken should reconstruct my water every time.

[Steve Urquell]

Quick note: I know you guys think I obsess over water. This batch was not a bad batch of beer necessarily. It was not infected and there was nothing wrong with balance, etc. but some combination of things in this recipe did not agree with each other. My guess is that it was a pale beer with higher-than-desired sulfates and possibly higher-than-desired bicarbonate. If it WAS the bittering hops, it would be out of my experience. Again, my Magnum use has probably not been in beers with an SRM of 4... more likely in amber or red beers did I use Magnum for bittering. When I make it again, I will keep the grains and late hops the same and maybe just change the bittering addition and the water.

My digital pH meter and EZ water calculator run pretty close together, so I plugged in your numbers and came up with a pH of 5.71 for those additions with that amt of bicarb. I usually end up adding acid malt to get my pH down to ~ 5.4 at room temp with pale grists. The only mashes I have to add bicarb to are 25SRM and darker. How much acid did you add to get your pH within range?

[Big Nake]

I use magnums across the board and don't get what you describe about your beer. From lite straw colored beers to heavy ipa.

You have lower bicarb I'm guessing. As does Studs.

My digital pH meter and EZ water calculator run pretty close together, so I plugged in your numbers and came up with a pH of 5.71 for those additions with that amt of bicarb. I usually end up adding acid malt to get my pH down to ~ 5.4 at room temp with pale grists. The only mashes I have to add bicarb to are 25SRM and darker. How much acid did you add to get your pH within range?

I'm in the habit of getting my mash pH into the zip code with the CaCl and gypsum and then watching to see where it lands. Then I use ColorpHast strips at mash temp. Everything I have heard is that the built-in correction factor shows .3 lower than the actual pH when you measure at mash temp. So I typically shoot for 5.0 which gets me to 5.3. If I have to make a correction, it's almost always DOWN and it's very slight... like a couple of drops of 88% lactic acid and that's it. According to my notes, the pH showed what I would consider perfect and I made no corrections. That means the strip showed right at 5.0 or close enough for me not to adjust. I will also say that although I think I used too much sulfate with the hops and pale color, Martin's water profiles have gotten me unbelievably close on pH every time I use them. Not sure how to explain the difference in your calcs and what my notes say. The beer did get decently clear which I know is one indicator of a good pH. Would a pH of 5.71 cause the beer to be too harsh? Also, I have been in the habit of checking sparge pH too and my notes show that it was high so I added ½ml of lactic acid to the sparge. That would suggest that my preboil pH was okay... I think.

[Steve Urquell]

I haven't had a mash pH that high so I can't say for sure, but if your strips aren't reading right and the pH was that high then I found this in bru'n water. I know those strips absorb moisture over time and can read wrong. It's recommended by EMD that they be stored with a dessicant or replaced every 1-2 yrs. https://www.homebrew...rmation-363559/ From Bru'n water: Minor increases in wort or beer pH can create problems in the finished beer. Increased wort and beer pH makes the beers bittering perception more coarse and less favorable. The isomerization of alpha acids during the boil is increased slightly as wort pH increases, which may add to the coarseness.

Edited by chils, 12 December 2012 - 09:20 PM.

[johnpreuss]

If you want to bitter a beer, try using a hop like a Kent Golding or a Cascade. The bitterness is much more palatable.

I can agree with the EKG but Cascade - NO - IMHO Cascade is a rough nasty bittering hop. I love Cascades don't get me wrong but I have made several single hopped APAs with Cascade and it's sister Delta and they both IMO had a harsh bitterness and I have made the same APA with Target or Columbus as bittering and Cascade as finishing and it was bitter but not harsh.

[Big Nake]

I haven't had a mash pH that high so I can't say for sure, but if your strips aren't reading right and the pH was that high then I found this in bru'n water. I know those strips absorb moisture over time and can read wrong. It's recommended by EMD that they be stored with a dessicant or replaced every 1-2 yrs. https://www.homebrew...rmation-363559/

From Bru'n water: Minor increases in wort or beer pH can create problems in the finished beer. Increased wort and beer pH makes the beers bittering perception more coarse and less favorable. The isomerization of alpha acids during the boil is increased slightly as wort pH increases, which may add to the coarseness.

Well, I will stay open-minded about that but this was a brand new box of ColorpHast strips that I have only had for about 2 weeks. I also remember a discussion I had with a few people about "good strips" (sounds like a PH topic) and meters and although there were a few meter-heads out there that said not to trust the strips, many good brewers said that the strips (good ones, mind you) were plently good for measuring pH and that meters might give you more information but not necessarily better information. I feel like I have my pH process in good shape but it's always possible I suppose. The legend of the ColorpHast strips goes by .3, I believe. 4.7, 5.0, 5.3, 5.6, etc. For me to be off by .7 would be a problem, for sure.