49 replies to this topic

[3rd party JKor]

Since I got back into brewing two years ago, I've had a problem with chill haze. Now, ultimately, I'm going to fix the process problem that's causing it, but that doesn't help for the beer I've already brewed. I've been thinking about adding gelatin to clear up the chill haze a bit. Out of curiousity, I decided to run an experiment. I pulled two growlers of my MLPA, mixed one up with the recommended dose of gelatin, and left the other as is. I'm going to monitor it daily to see how fast and how well the gelatin beer clears up compared to the control. Then, of course, is the fun part...taste test. :scratch:Here are the results for Day 0.1.) Control growler with light directly behind2.) Gelatin growler with light directly behind:3.) Control growler with light at 45° angle:4.) Gelatin growler with light at 45° angle:The growlers with the light at 45° look a little different, that's just because I didn't get them at exactly the same angle. I'll update with new pictures daily.

[treeboy]

At what temperature did you add the gelatin? I think most folks get the beer as cool as possible to induce haze and then toss the gelatin in to drop it out.

[3rd party JKor]

The beer is at ~36-37°F.

[zymot]

Good luck man.Worse that can happen you will make barley jello shots.Generally, chill haze is considered not to affect flavor, taste or mouthfeel. So make sure to report back you you detect any flavor, aroma or mouthfeel differences.zymot

[tag]

As Zymot said, chill haze doesn't affect the taste of the beer, so the first step might be using a ceramic mug!I have always thought that gelatin was used to flocculate beer yeast like Isinglass.Some wine makers use gelatin to decrease tannins though.Chill haze is formed by tannins and proteins combining at cold temperatures, so you can get rid of it just by chilling the beer and letting the chill haze settle out. Or you can decrease the proteins or tannins. Proteins are decreased by using Irish Moss (or others like it) in the boil. Tannins can be decreased by using Polyclar or the like in the finished beer.It will be interesting to see the results of your experiment. Thanks for sharing.

[SchwanzBrewer]

The last of the MLPA from my first batch has been in the fridge for 2 weeks, its crystal clear now.

[ncbeerbrewer]

The last of the MLPA from my first batch has been in the fridge for 2 weeks, its crystal clear now.

Looks pretty interesting JK. I have always done secondary and cold crashing/aging to clear my beer. Lagers come out crystal clear. Are you using Gelatin from the homebrew store? I thought I read somewhere that you can use the jello gelatin clear variety? Never done it look forward to seeing how it goes for you. Good Luck!!

[3rd party JKor]

I'm not worried about the taste of the chill haze, I just was curious about how well gelatin would clear the haze. Cold crashing certainly doesn't clear it. I think the problem is my cold break. I'm going to recirc chill on the next batch to see if that helps.

[3rd party JKor]

Well, it wasn't much of an experiment...after 33 hours the gelatin dosed growler is virtually completely clear. The gelatin growler still had some big chunks in suspension, but the haze is almost completely gone. I took pictures, but I'm not sure if they really show the extent to which the beer cleared out. You can see the difference, but the size of the growlers (thickness of sample) makes it difficult to really tell the extent. It would have been a good experiment for a clear bottle. I probably should have used soda bottles. Maybe I'll take some pics with different lighting. You can see that there's maybe an 1/8" of sludge on the bottom of the gelatin growler. The bottom on the control growler is completely clean. Here are the pics I took...1. Control growler with light directly behind2. Gelatin growler with light directly behind:3. Control growler with light at 45° angle4. Gelatin growler with light at 45° angle:5. Base of the gelatin growler

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I'm not worried about the taste of the chill haze, I just was curious about how well gelatin would clear the haze. Cold crashing certainly doesn't clear it. I think the problem is my cold break. I'm going to recirc chill on the next batch to see if that helps.

So you think the cause of your haze is b/c you don't chill fast enough?

[Big Nake]

I use gel on every batch I make and I add it to the secondary and rack the beer on top of it. It seems to work very well for clearing the beer. The chill haze thing is interesting because gel has always been said to drag solids down to the bottom of a vessel, but not necessarily eliminate chill haze. With the process I use where I use Whirfloc/Supermoss in the brewpot, rack from brewpot to primary and then use gel solution in the secondary... it seems that chill haze is greatly reduced or eliminated. Does gel drag enough of the tannins/proteins out of suspension so that chill is reduced or eliminated? I don't know, but my beers are much clearer with this process than any other. I used to have to use Divergan/Polyclar to get beers this clear but I haven't used that product in years because there's no need. Cheers.

[3rd party JKor]

So you think the cause of your haze is b/c you don't chill fast enough?

Yes, chilling the wort from boiling to pitch temp. I'm going directly from kettle to fermenter through my CFC. The CFC isn't terribly efficient, it takes maybe 15-20 minutes to get the whole batch through there. So a good chunk of the wort is sitting there near boiling for 10+ minutes. I think that's affecting my cold break.Could be a water/mash issue as well. I'll try the recirc/chill first because it's easier than fooling with the mash pH, water chemistry etc. I'll fool with that other stuff later.

[HVB]

Yes, chilling the wort from boiling to pitch temp. I'm going directly from kettle to fermenter through my CFC. The CFC isn't terribly efficient, it takes maybe 15-20 minutes to get the whole batch through there. So a good chunk of the wort is sitting there near boiling for 10+ minutes. I think that's affecting my cold break.Could be a water/mash issue as well. I'll try the recirc/chill first because it's easier than fooling with the mash pH, water chemistry etc. I'll fool with that other stuff later.

Have you thought about having the output of the CFC go back to the boil kettle until the wort in the kettle is at a specific temperature? I take the output of my CFC and feed it back through a whirpool wand of copper until the boil kettle is at 140 then I swap it out to go to my fermenter.

[3rd party JKor]

Have you thought about having the output of the CFC go back to the boil kettle until the wort in the kettle is at a specific temperature? I take the output of my CFC and feed it back through a whirpool wand of copper until the boil kettle is at 140 then I swap it out to go to my fermenter.

Right, that's what I meant by 'recirc/chill'. On my next brew I'll probably keep recirc'ing back to the kettle until I hit my pitch temp.

[tag]

Yes, chilling the wort from boiling to pitch temp. I'm going directly from kettle to fermenter through my CFC. The CFC isn't terribly efficient, it takes maybe 15-20 minutes to get the whole batch through there. So a good chunk of the wort is sitting there near boiling for 10+ minutes. I think that's affecting my cold break.Could be a water/mash issue as well. I'll try the recirc/chill first because it's easier than fooling with the mash pH, water chemistry etc. I'll fool with that other stuff later.

My understanding is that cold break is increased by both the temperature you reach and the speed in which you reach it (thus quicker chilling improves the amount of cold break). So the recirculation chilling may actually produce less cold break than your CFC.You could also try a longer mash.

[Big Nake]

You could also try a longer mash.

Interesting. How long are we all mashing? I mash for 60 minutes on all of my beers and then 2 batch sparges that last 10 minutes each. Also interesting is the talk of the quick chill. I use a standard 25' immersion chiller which chills very quickly in the winter (often getting down to about 50° in ~10 minutes) and it chills to about 65-70° in 10 minutes in the summer. That, plus the Whirfloc and I have break material dropping to the bottom of the brewpot in no time. Cheers.

[stangbat]

Gelatin will drop chill haze out very, very quickly *if the chill haze has formed*. This is why it works best to use gelatin in beer that is cold. If you are gelling beer that isn't cold, it may take out some of the proteins that cause chill haze, but it won't be nearly as effective as when those proteins have clumped together as haze.

[Humperdink]

Gelatin will drop chill haze out very, very quickly *if the chill haze has formed*. This is why it works best to use gelatin in beer that is cold. If you are gelling beer that isn't cold, it may take out some of the proteins that cause chill haze, but it won't be nearly as effective as when those proteins have clumped together as haze.

yep, I use gelatin at my serving temps. If you use it in room temp or cellar temps, it won't drop the haze you get at colder temps.

[3rd party JKor]

My understanding is that cold break is increased by both the temperature you reach and the speed in which you reach it (thus quicker chilling improves the amount of cold break). So the recirculation chilling may actually produce less cold break than your CFC.You could also try a longer mash.

???Recirc chilling should cause you to reach a lower temp at a much faster rate.

[ChefLamont]

This is something I have always wondered (not having a CFC myself). If you use a CFC and recirc, you are dropping the temp VERY quickly on a small volume of work (in the CFC) and then returning to the relatively warm main kettle volume. After you form (coagulate) those protein solids, do they "redissolve" or un-coagulate when they go back into the kettle?