127 replies to this topic

[MyaCullen]

Which is what I'm going to be doing at first. So I should be the slits both on top and on the bottom?

just the bottom

[MtnBrewer]

Which is what I'm going to be doing at first. So I should be the slits both on top and on the bottom?

If all you're ever going to do is batch sparge, then you don't need to go to the trouble of a manifold. If you think you may want to fly sparge in the future, then build your manifold to do both, i.e., slits on the bottom.

[positiveContact]

If all you're ever going to do is batch sparge, then you don't need to go to the trouble of a manifold. If you think you may want to fly sparge in the future, then build your manifold to do both, i.e., slits on the bottom.

you can also just use the SS braid for now and upgrade later if you decide you want to fly sparge. setting up the SS braid is really cheap and easy to do so it wouldn't be a big loss if you stopped using it.

[Deerslyr]

Which is what I'm going to be doing at first. So I should be the slits both on top and on the bottom?

As has been pointed out... just the bottom.

[MtnBrewer]

you can also just use the SS braid for now and upgrade later if you decide you want to fly sparge. setting up the SS braid is really cheap and easy to do so it wouldn't be a big loss if you stopped using it.

Yes, absolutely.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I had to read that sentence a dozen times and it still doesn't make sense to me. If you had stopped the sentence after the word "manifold", I would have agreed with you. But the rest makes no sense. Please explain what you mean and I may be able to have a better response. I don't want to presume to know what you mean before responding.

When you batch sparge you are not rinsing the grains like you do with fly sparging. You pour the whole volume of sparge water in, mix it all up and drain the tun. There is only so much sugar and such that can be picked up into the water that way at a time, the sugar is competing with a bunch of other stuff too. The only thing you are doing is draining the tun of the wort without picking up too many husks and the like. A manifolds function is to collect wort from different areas of the mash tun while the water is filtered through the grain. Because you spread the load, the fluid mechanics works out so that you don't miss as many sugars. In a batch sparge that is unnecessary. You already collected all the sugar that is possible to collect when you added the sparge water and stirred it all up. All that is left is to drain through a mechanical filter just to stop large particles. So a manifold isn't necessary which is why Denny has gotten by with just a braid for a whole bunch of years without a noticeable difference in efficiency.

Why would a RIMS have anything to do with it?

Just an example of geeking out your system. I figured most RIMS guys would likely fly sparge too. But it isn't necessary I guess.

[beach]

you can also just use the SS braid for now and upgrade later if you decide you want to fly sparge. setting up the SS braid is really cheap and easy to do so it wouldn't be a big loss if you stopped using it.

JD, I can sent you the one I quit using when I went to a manifold.Beach

[Deerslyr]

When you batch sparge you are not rinsing the grains like you do with fly sparging. You pour the whole volume of sparge water in, mix it all up and drain the tun. There is only so much sugar and such that can be picked up into the water that way at a time, the sugar is competing with a bunch of other stuff too. The only thing you are doing is draining the tun of the wort without picking up too many husks and the like. A manifolds function is to collect wort from different areas of the mash tun while the water is filtered through the grain. Because you spread the load, the fluid mechanics works out so that you don't miss as many sugars. In a batch sparge that is unnecessary. You already collected all the sugar that is possible to collect when you added the sparge water and stirred it all up. All that is left is to drain through a mechanical filter just to stop large particles. So a manifold isn't necessary which is why Denny has gotten by with just a braid for a whole bunch of years without a noticeable difference in efficiency.Just an example of geeking out your system. I figured most RIMS guys would likely fly sparge too. But it isn't necessary I guess.

Makes a little bit more sense, but your explanation is still convoluted. With each "batch" you are rinsing the grains of residual sugar. After my initial drain (when I batch sparged), I would have at least two more additions. I agree, the batch method is quicker when it comes to the draining, but in theory, if you have a good mainfold, your efficiency shouldn't suffer from what you get from a batch sparge. I've already demonstrated that my manifold has a nominal difference in efficiency between batch sparging and fly sparging. Whether you are fly or batch sparging, the process is still rinsing the sugars off the grain. Is it necessary to have a manifold to batch sparge? Nope.

[MyaCullen]

Makes a little bit more sense, but your explanation is still convoluted. With each "batch" you are rinsing the grains of residual sugar. After my initial drain (when I batch sparged), I would have at least two more additions. I agree, the batch method is quicker when it comes to the draining, but in theory, if you have a good mainfold, your efficiency shouldn't suffer from what you get from a batch sparge. I've already demonstrated that my manifold has a nominal difference in efficiency between batch sparging and fly sparging. Whether you are fly or batch sparging, the process is still rinsing the sugars off the grain.Is it necessary to have a manifold to batch sparge? Nope.

one is a flood the other is a massage both are rinsing

Edited by miccullen, 09 May 2012 - 09:07 AM.

[MyaCullen]

you can always make a braidifold

[Jdtirado]

JD, I can sent you the one I quit using when I went to a manifold.Beach

Awesome offer, but I want to be like the big boys, so I'm going to build a manifold. Great offer though from a great group

[SchwanzBrewer]

I wasn't discussing efficiency of the sparge method vs which design you use (I use a manifold and argue that either braid or manifold - it doesn't matter for batch sparging), just the mechanical difference in how you dissolve the sugars into solution between fly and batch. Basically I was saying that it doesn't matter what you use for batch sparging and I was trying to explain why.1. Batch - entire sparge volume is added. Mix thoroughly and drain. You only set the grain bed to avoid a stuck sparge, you are not dissolving extra sugars into solution. I theorize that 98% of your sugars are dissolved into solution during the physical stirring with your mash paddle. So long as the wort can move to the drain, how it gets there doesn't matter.2. Fly - continuous addition of fresh sparge water picks up free sugars as the sparge continues until your desired volume is reached via filtering (this is where manifold design comes into play for fluid dynamics - you have to get the sparge water to pass through each pocket of sugar where ever they are in the grain bed without channeling the water away from areas.)I use a manifold because I wanted to try fly sparging for the fun of it eventually when I made my tun. The efficiencies I get with batch sparging are likely without regard to manifold/braid, IMO.I hope that helps clear up what I was saying.Cheers,Rich

[beach]

Awesome offer, but I want to be like the big boys, so I'm going to build a manifold. Great offer though from a great group

Ok, I get that. I'd offer to sent you the manifold that I quit using when I went to a FB in a keggle, but, I canabalized the copper to make a drain pan holder on my keezer.Beacheta: yes, the slots are on the bottom

Edited by beach, 09 May 2012 - 10:25 AM.

[denny]

I did not mention that, sorry. For my question I am only interested in batch sparging.

Then channeling doesn't occur or matter. Try the braid first. It's easier to make and in my experience better than a manifold. If you decide you don't like the braid, then you can go to the effort of building a manifold.

[denny]

I don't think it would be wise to fly sparge with a braid for that very reason. My understanding is that most homebrewers that have a braid only batch sparge. I would question their knowledge. If you were only planning on batch sparging, I would stick with the braid. If you thought you wanted to fly sparge at some point, build the manifold... the manifold will handle both batch and fly.

Again, it's not the material, it's the configuration. A single streaight length of braid would not be ideal for fly sparging. But you can configure the braid around the bottom of the tun oin such a way as to be great for fly sparging.

[denny]

one is a flood the other is a massage both are rinsing

Nope, batch sparging is a dilution and draining process, not rinsing.

[denny]

Awesome offer, but I want to be like the big boys, so I'm going to build a manifold. Great offer though from a great group

Are you saying I'm NOT a big boy? Dude, you're a homebrewer....you don't have to have the constraints that commercial brewers have. Revel in your freedom and use a braid!

[positiveContact]

Are you saying I'm NOT a big boy? Dude, you're a homebrewer....you don't have to have the constraints that commercial brewers have. Revel in your freedom and use a braid!

FREEEEEEDDDOOOOMMMMM!!! there must be a pic of denny with a kilt on somewhere...

[Jdtirado]

Are you saying I'm NOT a big boy? Dude, you're a homebrewer....you don't have to have the constraints that commercial brewers have. Revel in your freedom and use a braid!

Damn...I insulted one of my heroes - where is my glock 21. I need to put an end to this newbies life.

[positiveContact]

Damn...I insulted one of my heroes - where is my glock 21. I need to put an end to this newbies life.

woah dude - take it easy. we're all here to learn. denny knows a lot but he's still human (or at least partly)