155 replies to this topic

[BlKtRe]

In a RIMS, the wort comes in direct contact with a heating element. Scorching is listed as a potential problem but my guess is that it's not near as bad a problem as some people claim (or else nobody would use a RIMS). In a HERMS, there is a heat exchanger (some people call them immersion chillers) sitting in a hot water bath and the wort is circulated through it to heat it up. This is a lot less efficient than heating the wort directly but avoids the scorching issue (or non-issue whatever the case may be).

Basic principle. Real life its a tad different.Common Brew day Scenario using HERMS and cooler MT: Heating strike in your HERMS/HLT (common appliance). Dough in with strike. Missed mash temp -4*. HERMS /HLT is now empty. HERMS is useless to recirc to raise mash temp for desired temp (-4) since there is no water because you striked with it. Daym.Solution(s) : Bring strike water in one vessel to temp then strike into MT. At the same time as heating strike temp. water in one vessel start heating HERMS/Sparge water in a separate vessel which means two burners firing at the same time. If you missed your mash temp by by -4* use your preheated HERMS water to balance desired mash temp. If you nailed mash temp. then your HERMS water is useless (and just wasted time and energy in heating it up). Allow it to cool off unused during mash rest then waste some more gas to reheat for sparging.Or, build a small 3rd vessel (5g) electric/gas fired HERMS to be ready for those missed mash temps or step mashes. Inefficient as all get out.Final option : RIMS.Wort temp ramp on demand. Need a few degrees from that -4* missed mash temp, move some wort thru the RIMS. Need a step mash. Move some wort thru the RIMS. Heat on demand.Possible drawback: Constant recirc of wort thru the RIMS during the entire mash period. Cannot leave on RIMS while wort is not recirc. or it will scorch. So always keep the wort moving with a RIMS. HERMS is a water>coil heat transfer so no scorching since there is no direct contact with the wort to the heating medium (hot water).Confusing as all get out but gladly offer a hands on to show the difference.Im guessing this sounds mumbly jumbly?

[MtnBrewer]

I'm guessing there is alcohol involved.

[HVB]

I have never had a scorching issue but I think it depends on your recircuilation rate. The slower the flow the more contact with the element. Before the RIMS I had a modified HERMS that was 20' of 1/2 copper tubbing in a 2 gallon round cooler with an electric element. Worked great till it started to leak.

[BlKtRe]

I'm guessing there is alcohol involved.

[MtnBrewer]

I re-read your rant and now I understand. Thought I was going to have to get drunk to read it but no...wasn't as incoherent as I thought.Keep in mind that what I have in mind is a smaller system. I'd be brewing 5 gallon batches nearly all the time with maybe an option for a 10 gallon batch (maybe with a different kettle). Also keep in mind that if I do this it will be all electric. I believe that to overcome the HLT problem, you'd have to make sure the HLT is big enough to hold your strike water and plus enough excess to keep the coil covered.So from a practical standpoint the difference between a RIMS and a HERMS is that in a RIMS, you control temperature by turning on and off the heating element but in a HERMS you control it by turning on and off the mash pump.

[djinkc]

I re-read your rant and now I understand. Thought I was going to have to get drunk to read it but no...wasn't as incoherent as I thought.Keep in mind that what I have in mind is a smaller system. I'd be brewing 5 gallon batches nearly all the time with maybe an option for a 10 gallon batch (maybe with a different kettle). Also keep in mind that if I do this it will be all electric. I believe that to overcome the HLT problem, you'd have to make sure the HLT is big enough to hold your strike water and plus enough excess to keep the coil covered.So from a practical standpoint the difference between a RIMS and a HERMS is that in a RIMS, you control temperature by turning on and off the heating element but in a HERMS you control it by turning on and off the mash pump.

I'm using a converted Sanke for my EHLT/EHERMS. I average 7 gals for a single infusion. Lately I've been topping off with hot water after that and start to recirculate. I let a Ranco run the element and the pump recirculates continuously. I quit measuring mash temps while recirculating. It was always 9df cooler than the EHERMS on my system. 152df mash -> 161df water in the EHERMS.

[HVB]

So from a practical standpoint the difference between a RIMS and a HERMS is that in a RIMS, you control temperature by turning on and off the heating element but in a HERMS you control it by turning on and off the mash pump.

I think that is a good way to explain the two.

[BlKtRe]

I think that is a good way to explain the two.

Makes sense to me sober.Now figure out why a HERMS has a lot of disadvantages.

[MtnBrewer]

Now figure out why a HERMS has a lot of disadvantages.

I'm still working on that.

[BlKtRe]

I'm still working on that.

I already spelled that out.

[MtnBrewer]

I know you did.For all that ranting, the only real problem you mentioned was that your HLT was too small. My HLT won't be too small.

[djinkc]

Makes sense to me sober.Now figure out why a HERMS has a lot of disadvantages.

Nope, since I started topping it off with hot water after mashing in it's ready to go immediately.But that dual element RIMS does look sweet.

[BlKtRe]

Nope, since I started topping it off with hot water after mashing in it's ready to go immediately.But that dual element RIMS does look sweet.

Adding cold water to hot water requires more time and energy to heat up. I cant see you are immediately at a heat transfer temp? Not with a 10g batch.

[MtnBrewer]

Adding cold water to hot water requires more time and energy to heat up. I cant see you are immediately at a heat transfer temp? Not with a 10g batch.

Nope, since I started topping it off with hot water after mashing in it's ready to go immediately.

[BlKtRe]

So Dan is adding hot water to hot water?How is the hot water addition getting heated before he tops off his EHERMS with it? Maybe Dan is breathing his hot air into it!

[djinkc]

So Dan is adding hot water to hot water?How is the hot water addition getting heated before he tops off his EHERMS with it?Maybe Dan is breathing his hot air into it!

We live in the city and have a hot water heater.

[MtnBrewer]

[BlKtRe]

We live in the city and have a hot water heater.

Got tired of cutting your heating wood and now buy it. I know your type.

[Mya]

Got tired of cutting your heating wood and now buy it. I know your type.

that's referred to as intelligent

[pete maz]

Keep in mind that what I have in mind is a smaller system. I'd be brewing 5 gallon batches nearly all the time with maybe an option for a 10 gallon batch (maybe with a different kettle). Also keep in mind that if I do this it will be all electric. I believe that to overcome the HLT problem, you'd have to make sure the HLT is big enough to hold your strike water and plus enough excess to keep the coil covered.

This is exactly where I am with my HERMS. 50l keg (13.2 gals) serves as the HLT, and I brew 5 gallon batches. I generally mash in with around 4-5 gals, so I have enough left over in the HLT to cover the coil and adjust for those -4* undershoots. But if I'm doing a 10 gal batch I'm pretty well screwed if I undershoot.