71 replies to this topic

[Kellermeister]

I only use Weyermann's Caramunich and Carafa. I read somewhere that Weyermann's is used at zU so I am sticking to that. I would not put any caramel malt in it, too sweet. I'm not sure what brand of roast barley and melanoidin I am using.

[Brauer]

how dark of a crystal do you typically use? I'd consider scaling back to 1/4lb on the crystal if it's dark enough to help get up to the color I'd like. I'm wary of adding more debittered black than I already am b/c I want to avoid roastiness.

I usually use CaraMunich II (not British or American Crystal Malt), which gets me to just about 12 SRM, with 1.5 oz of Carafa. CM III might help a little if you want to hit a color, but I don't worry about that very much, I'd rather get the flavor right. An Alt can be a beautiful beer, though. Stick with Carafa Special I or II and you shouldn't get much roastiness from these small amounts, more of a nuttiness.

[BlKtRe]

I usually use CaraMunich II (not British or American Crystal Malt), which gets me to just about 12 SRM, with 1.5 oz of Carafa. CM III might help a little if you want to hit a color, but I don't worry about that very much, I'd rather get the flavor right. An Alt can be a beautiful beer, though. Stick with Carafa Special I or II and you shouldn't get much roastiness from these small amounts, more of a nuttiness.

At the small percentages of the Carafa I or II you shouldn't get any flavor contributions should you? These malts in this style is just for color anyways.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

Munich 30 sounds good. How does that differ from Crystal CaraMunich?

CaraMunich is crystal malt. The starch is converted to sugar then its kilned to the color. A true Munich 30 would be like an aromatic malt and still have the diastatic power to convert in the mash. The flavor difference should be carmel vs toast.

[denny]

At the small percentages of the Carafa I or II you shouldn't get any flavor contributions should you? These malts in this style is just for color anyways.

I really prefer using Sinamar in an alt. It's completely flavorless and it's easier to use than malt in the mash, since you can just add a bit at a time til you get the color right.

[Brauer]

At the small percentages of the Carafa I or II you shouldn't get any flavor contributions should you? These malts in this style is just for color anyways.

Perhaps I'm fooling myself, but I think I taste it. It's a very mild flavor, though, and I happen to like that subtle nuttiness. It is subtle enough, though, that I sometimes leave it out, (which is just like using sinimar, right?) and still like it. It's just not as pretty and perhaps not as complex.

[BlKtRe]

Perhaps I'm fooling myself, but I think I taste it. It's a very mild flavor, though, and I happen to like that subtle nuttiness. It is subtle enough, though, that I sometimes leave it out, (which is just like using sinimar, right?) and still like it. It's just not as pretty and perhaps not as complex.

No, not foolish at all. But I do think its obvious the more that's used the more hint of nuttiness. I kinda like what you are speaking of myself.

[Big Nake]

I really prefer using Sinamar in an alt. It's completely flavorless and it's easier to use than malt in the mash, since you can just add a bit at a time til you get the color right.

Funny to hear you say that because that suggests that you want color in your Altbier but not necessarily the flavor. I have a small (4oz?) bottle of Sinamar too and I have used it in a number of beers too. I agree it's got no real flavor to it but it sure does darken the beer. I suggested at one point that Sinamar was cheating. As in, Why are you adding color just for the sake of adding color? You could make a Czech Pils and then add Sinamar and have a "blackened pils" that still tastes like a Czech Pils.

[denny]

Funny to hear you say that because that suggests that you want color in your Altbier but not necessarily the flavor. I have a small (4oz?) bottle of Sinamar too and I have used it in a number of beers too. I agree it's got no real flavor to it but it sure does darken the beer. I suggested at one point that Sinamar was cheating. As in, Why are you adding color just for the sake of adding color? You could make a Czech Pils and then add Sinamar and have a "blackened pils" that still tastes like a Czech Pils.

AFAIK, Sinamr was invented by Weyermann specifically for Kostritzer to color their schwarzbier. Could be just rumor, but that's what I've read.

[Big Nake]

Yeah, this is what got me looking into Sinamar in the first place... finding a beer that is very dark in color but has no real 'roasty' flavors. My guess is that Altbier shouldn't really have any roasted flavor but I agree with some others here that even small amounts of Carafa I, II or III still lend some roastiness as does debittered black malt. These dark beers I'm talking about aren't laden with dark crystal malts or heavily roasted malts (that I can tell) because they have an ultra-clean flavor that is not sweet or roasty... just dark.

[djinkc]

Considering this style has a history, some type of dark malt probably has its' place when going with the darker SRM.

[drewseslu]

Considering this style has a history, some type of dark malt probably has its' place when going with the darker SRM.

Well, if you want to dig into the historical aspect, the 'original' brewers probably used whatever malt they could get, probably 'Dortmund' malt, which I would guess to be kind of like a medium dark Munich, but that last bit is speculation.

[beach]

you can just add a bit at a time til you get the color right.

Sorry for the off-topic post, but, could soneone explain the process here please? For example: how does *one drop/12oz* scale up to a corny full of beer? Or do you add a little to the keg, check, add more, check, etc?Thanks, Beach

[Big Nake]

Sorry for the off-topic post, but, could soneone explain the process here please? For example: how does *one drop/12oz* scale up to a corny full of beer? Or do you add a little to the keg, check, add more, check, etc?Thanks, Beach

If it's Sinamar, it's just dark grain-based liquid like food coloring which can be added to keg, secondary, bottling bucket, etc. Otherwise it could be grains in the mash. You can add grains to the MT close to the end of the mash process and get color from the grains w/o getting much flavor. Not sure if that was the reference... just assuming.

[Brauer]

how does *one drop/12oz* scale up to a corny full of beer?

There's 40 pints in a 5 gallon corny, so if 1 drop gets you where you want in a pint of beer, then you can add 40 drops to the keg to get to the same color. Or 53.3 drops if you dose a 12 oz glass.

[BlKtRe]

If it's Sinamar, it's just dark grain-based liquid like food coloring which can be added to keg, secondary, bottling bucket, etc. Otherwise it could be grains in the mash. You can add grains to the MT close to the end of the mash process and get color from the grains w/o getting much flavor. Not sure if that was the reference... just assuming.

Sinamar, to heck with Reinheitsgebot

[Kellermeister]

My guess is that Altbier shouldn't really have any roasted flavor ...

I disagree, I think an alt should have some background roasty flavor. It is not the main flavor, but a background flavor. This is what carafa does.

[Kellermeister]

Here are a couple of interesting pages. I did not find this information in the English section of the website:Carafahttps://www.weyermann.de/ger/produkte.asp?idkat=5&umenue=yes&idmenue=2&sprache=1Use Carafa from 1 to 5% in the following: dunkle Biere, z.B. Münchner oder Kulmbacher Typ Starkbiere Altbiere Bockbiere SchwarzbiereProvides more intensive aroma and dark colorThere is also a Carafa Spezial, which is debittered.Weizenrostmalz (roasted wheat) is interesting, it says only for ales such as altbier.I have not tried this but it matches Denny's recipe description. I assume it is this product:https://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/brewing-ingredients/grain-malts/toasted-roasted-malts/weyermann-chocolate-wheat.htmlCaramunichhttps://www.weyermann.de/ger/produkte.asp?PN=2&idkat=4&umenue=yes&idmenue=2&sprache=1Apparently Caramunich is called CaraMunch in German. Use 5-10% in dark beers, 1-5% in light beers. Erhöhung der Vollmundigkeit Intensivierung des Malzaromas voller, runder Geschmack sattere Bierfarbenroughly translated:Improves flavor, more intensive malt aroma, better color

[Big Nake]

Apparently Caramunich is called CaraMunch in German.

Mmm, heh-heh. This sounds like something Beavis & Butthead would say. Mmm, heh-heh. ButtMunch. CaraMunch.

[denny]

Sorry for the off-topic post, but, could soneone explain the process here please? For example: how does *one drop/12oz* scale up to a corny full of beer? Or do you add a little to the keg, check, add more, check, etc?Thanks, Beach

I add it to the kettle, pull some wort with a Pyrex measuring cup, look at the color, adjust if needed.