71 replies to this topic

[Kellermeister]

I know there are some experts on altbier that post here. I am interested in opinions on what makes the character of altbier. There are many variations of how you can brew an altbier, but what can you not do without?Here is my opinion, which is based on having lived in the Niederrhein for 6 years and having drank alt (mostly Diebels) with dinner almost every day. I am imbedded in the area as a "local" because my wife is from there and I have a lot of family there, although we live in Michigan now.Malt: the essentials are caramunich and a touch of carafa. The base malt is pilsner. I think Weyermann's is required for the caramunich and carafa, but american pilsner malts are fine. I tend to go with the caramunich III and carafa III. Variations can include munich malt as a base malt. I like up to 2/3 munich, 1/3 pilsner. Thats just my taste preference.Years ago I did test batches on all specialty malts that might be used to make alt, with about a half pound of specialty malt in a 5 gallon batch (with pilsner as a base malt). Besides caramunich and carafa, the best results came from melanoidin, Special B and roast barley. These are optional and can be used to make the flavor more complex. I like to use melanoidin and roast barley to get a rusty copper color with a ruby glow when held to the light.Yeast: Wyeast 1007. It is perfect.Hops: I usually stick to Spalt as a 60 minute bittering hop at a fairly low IBU (30). That would be the conservative minimum hop addition. Other hop choices are Perle, Hallertauer, Magnum. Of these, I have only tried Hallertauer in an alt, it was good, not quite as bitter but nice and spicy. I got a bad bag of Perle once which turned me off to it but I will try it again. If leaf Spalt wasn't so hard to find, I would just use Spalt. I have not tried Magnum but list it here based on recommendations from others.Flowery aroma turns me off when drinking alt. My opinion is that there should be no flowers there, just bittering. Actually there could be some herbal aroma but there must be no flowery, piney or citrusy flavor. Most american hops don't work. Spicy noble hops do work (Spalt, Hallertauer). I would like to try Magnum and Cluster, but have not tried them yet.Mash: I am not an expert in picking out the difference in mash effects. I generally mash 1 hour at 150F with my cooler mash tun / batch sparge system.Wrap UP:The basic alt recipe:94% pilsner5% caramunich III (Weyermanns)1% carafa III (Weyermanns)mash 60 minutes at 150F30 IBUs of Spalt, 60 minute boilWyeast 1007Many variations could be made from this base recipe. I have never brewed it exactly as shown but I believe this would be very close to a commercial altbier.

[djinkc]

Lately, every version had to have Munich, Melanoidin (sometimes Aromatic instead) and Carafa III. I like to dry it out pretty well too. Usually mashing under 150df.Haven't tried CaraMunich in one so far but this is the second time I've seen it mentioned for Alts in just a few days. I'll have to try it.

[BlKtRe]

I use Cara Munich 60 in my Alts, no Carafa. Pils base, mash 148*. I used to use Spalt but ditched it for Hallertau. I really like the color the CM60 adds to the beer. Very close to the commercial versions I've had here in the States. One of these days I will get across the pond to actually have fresh Alt. But I have done well in homebrew comps with my Northern and Dusses. I've always regarded your input on Alt because you have sampled many Alts over there and have the passion to brew them.EDIT: I use Magnum a lot too.

Edited by BlKtRe, 05 September 2011 - 06:18 AM.

[denny]

My "Holy Grail" alt is Zum Uerige. Never cared much for Diebel's. it's sweeter than I like and the dryness and hop punch of ZU really appeals to me. I have several different alt recipes I brew, though, depending on what I want at the moment. Here's the ZU recipe, straight from the brewmaster himself..Water can be relatively hard with a high carbonate level. This is pretty much what my water is like. Malt is based on well modified pils, with a bit of caramel malt and a bit of "chocolate roasted wheat malt". Dunno exactly what that is. Mash schedule has rests at 125, 144, 158, and 169 (mashout). Boil time is 60-70 min. Mittelfruh, Perle, or Spalt are the preferred hops. Aroma hop addition is about 25% of the total hop amount. Add aroma hops no earlier than 20 min. before flameout. OG is 1.044-1.052. Primary between 59-68F. Secondary at 50F. Then condition at 32F for 14 days. FG should be 1.008-1.014. 4.3-5.5% ABV Here's the recipe he gives for 5 gal. ....5.9 lb. Pils malt.15 lb. Caramel malt (e.g. Weyermann Caramunich)1.34 oz. Chocolate Roasted malt (e.g. weyermann Carafa Spezial Type 1).7 oz. Hallertau Mittlefruh - 6.5% - 60 min..46 oz. Perele - 7.5% - 60 min.1.11 oz. Spalt - 5% - 20 min.

[Kellermeister]

Zum Uerige is the local favorite as well, based on what I heard from local alt fans in the region. Schumacher is another, it is available in large bottles. I converted the above recipe to percent, and on the chance there was a misunderstanding regarding the units, converted the pilsner and caramunich from kilograms. I know I cannot get a decent gravity out of 6lbs of pilsner in a 5 gallon batch.[table='Zum Uerige'][tr][td]Zum Uerige Recipe[/td][/tr] [tr][td][/td] [td]lb[/td] [td]oz[/td] [td]percent[/td][/tr][tr][td]Pilsner[/td] [td]5.90[/td] [td]94.40[/td] [td]96.19%[/td][/tr][tr][td]Caramunich[/td] [td]0.15[/td] [td]2.40[/td] [td]2.45%[/td][/tr][tr][td]Carafa[/td] [td][/td] [td]1.34[/td] [td]1.37%[/td][/tr][tr][td]TOTAL[/td] [td]6.13[/td] [td]98.14[/td] [td][/td][/tr][tr][td].[/td][td].[/td][td].[/td][td].[/td][/tr] [tr][td]Assume values are in kg[/td] [td][/td] [td]2.21 lbs/kg[/td] [td][/td][/tr] [tr][td][/td] [td]kg[/td] [td]lb[/td] [td]oz[/td] [td]percent[/td][/tr][tr][td]Pilsner[/td] [td]5.90[/td] [td]13.01[/td] [td]208.15[/td] [td]96.91%[/td][/tr][tr][td]Caramunich[/td] [td]0.15[/td] [td]0.33[/td] [td]5.29[/td] [td]2.46%[/td][/tr][tr][td]Carafa[/td][td][/td][td][/td] [td]1.34[/td] [td]0.62%[/td][/tr][/table]Either way it looks like 97% pilsner - 3% caramunich - 1% carafa is roughly the grain bill. I calculate about 38 IBUs with that hop schedule and a 13.5 lb grain bill.

[Big Nake]

I appreciate this information. Somewhere on this board is a thread where I was asking for this information (what MUST you use, what are the variables, etc). I found that there were four substyles of Altbier... Muster, Sticke, Dusseldorf and Northern German. I ended up making an Alt that would probably be considered a NG Alt and I used pilsner malt, Munich, some Melanoidin but also a small amount of wheat and Crystal 80 which was probably a mistake. For hops I used Magnum at 60 and Hallertau at 20 for a total IBU of 35 and I used 1007 which I like a lot. The beer was good but I like the information given here and plan to make another one based on Keller's data. I have the 1007 and would like to have a version this fall. Here's a shot of the one I made... looked very nice!

[Kellermeister]

Of those three types, Dusseldorf Alt is the one to focus on. Northern German and Munster Alts are brown ales, not bad but not anything really special. Sticke is interesting but it is very rare, I have never had it. zum Uerige is the best of the Dusseldorf alts, if you get a chance to taste it, that is the pinnacle and target.If you like making your own style, extreme alts are very tasty too. My standard house alt is Ruhrpott Alt, 60% munich, 30% pilsner, 4% caramunich, 3% melanoidin, 2% roast barley, 1% carafa. Spalt bittering hops, 60 minutes. I think I need to bump up the IBUs, currently the recipe is at 30 but I may increase it and add Hallertauer. This is not a traditional alt, especially with roast barley in there, but it definitely has the alt flavor and a lot of it.I may try this recipe next brew:My link

[BlKtRe]

My go to is a Dusse as well...PilsMunichCM60Wheat and Carafoam are rotator'sSometimes I will use Dark Wheat.Gr. Magnum 60Gr. Magnum 30Gr. Hallertau 20Gravity and IBU's at the top end of the style.

Edited by BlKtRe, 05 September 2011 - 04:41 PM.

[cavman]

My last Alt was:58% Pils39% Munich3% Carafa IIIBittered with perle and finished with a mix of tettnang and saaz to 26 IBU, this was more of a NG Alt it was very nice. Last Dussy was 100% Munich bittered with Magnum plus Spalt at 20 and 0, to 46 IBU a very nice beer though not traditional.

[Big Nake]

As long as we're on the subject... would anyone care to share their water profile for this style? Just total ppms of the big 6 water ions would be helpful. Cheers AltBierHeads.

[cavman]

As long as we're on the subject... would anyone care to share their water profile for this style? Just total ppms of the big 6 water ions would be helpful. Cheers AltBierHeads.

My water is very clean, I usually just add a little gypsum though I have tried a combo of salts. Just adding gypsum was as good as the other way so I stick with what works for me.

[shaggaroo]

dang you guys... I guess I have to brew one of these...

[MtnBrewer]

As long as we're on the subject... would anyone care to share their water profile for this style? Just total ppms of the big 6 water ions would be helpful. Cheers AltBierHeads.

Whatever is already in my water works fine. Rough numbers in ppm: Ca 20, Na 15, SO₄ 15, HCO₃ 60. Adding a little gypsum would probably perk up the bitterness.

[MtnBrewer]

I agree about ZU being the gold standard. I use a little CM III and some Carafa only for color. The base malt is a blend of pils and Munich. The ratio depends on how I'm feeling that day. It can go from 70:30 to 30:70. I tried an all Munich version one time and didn't much care for it. Magnum for bittering is a very good choice and I like a little bit of aroma hops but not enough to turn it into a pale ale.

[Big Nake]

Whatever is already in my water works fine. Rough numbers in ppm: Ca 20, Na 15, SO₄ 15, HCO₃ 60. Adding a little gypsum would probably perk up the bitterness.

Okay, this is very helpful. I'm on a mission to get my water correct for every beer I brew from here on out. On some, I'm already there... on others, I have miles to go. Cheers.

[Big Nake]

Oh, I just looked at that a little closer. If you did not add gypsum, would you brew it "as is" with only 20ppm calcium? Seems low & against some unwritten rules so just curious. Cheers.

[MtnBrewer]

Okay, this is very helpful. I'm on a mission to get my water correct for every beer I brew from here on out. On some, I'm already there... on others, I have miles to go. Cheers.

That's where we differ. I don't think there is such a thing as a correct water profile any more than I think there is a correct hop schedule or grain bill.

[MtnBrewer]

Oh, I just looked at that a little closer. If you did not add gypsum, would you brew it "as is" with only 20ppm calcium? Seems low & against some unwritten rules so just curious. Cheers.

I never have trouble reaching mash pH with an amber or darker beer. I would consider adding gypsum for flavor reasons only.

[positiveContact]

I'm planning on picking up the yeast for this soon. Then just need the basement to cool off...

[Big Nake]

I never have trouble reaching mash pH with an amber or darker beer. I would consider adding gypsum for flavor reasons only.

I thought there was an accepted minimal calcium level for yeast health or clarity or something that most people believe to be 50ppm. Maybe I'm debunking something again!