72 replies to this topic

[chuck_d]

Nope, I still have bottles and a little left in the keg right now. I guess in theory there shouldn't be any flavor contribution from the CO2 saturation coming from a tank vs. naturally from the slight fermentation from the yeast right? CO2 is an odorless, tasteless gas right?

CO2 is an odorless/tasteless gas however when in solution some of it becomes carbonic acid which is not odorless/tasteless. Your theory that it doesn't matter how the CO2 got there is correct, CO2 is CO2 and you don't get "finer" bubbles from primed versus forced carbonation.As a side note, excess CO2 is what stimulates your breathing, not a lack of O2. Take a whiff of CO2 and you'll get the point as you start coughing it up. It will also slightly burn. I've actually done this in at least two different ways, once I accidentally took a whiff from a keg I had just purged, the other time I dunked my head down into the chest freezer where I had been fermenting to pick something up and inhaled. It was similar though not as strong in chest freezer.

[Deerslyr]

Also, I force carbonate, and if all my taps are occupied my kegs are still RTG when one kicks, this has nothing to do with primed versus forced carbonation.

Do you have a second tank then??? I'm not sure how you can achieve RTG if you do the "low and slow" method. You must have a second tank in order to be RTG when a keg kicks... correct?

[ncbeerbrewer]

If you have a Blichmann Beer Gun and I think this applies to any counter pressure bottle filler you need to split the C02 tank at the regulator with a Wye splitter. I have one tank and I can run all 4 of my taps plus I can carbonate a keg in waiting in my lagering freezer at the same time. Wye Splitter

[chuck_d]

Do you have a second tank then??? I'm not sure how you can achieve RTG if you do the "low and slow" method. You must have a second tank in order to be RTG when a keg kicks... correct?

Yup. It "costs" $100, but I can get that $100 back so it's really not a cost at all. There is the one time cost of an extra regulator, but those cost about as much as the ingredients for one batch (10 gallons), and they also retain some resale value, although it's not exactly the same as a deposit where you just bring it back to the store and get your money back. I am in the process of building out a gas distribution system in my brewery with a secondary regulator that has 4 bodies, so I'm taking my old double body primary regulator and put that on the tank that I use for carbonating so I can carbonate two beers at different levels while they are "on deck" and just using a cheap primary to feed the secondary regulator. When my friend gets his car back I might upgrade to a 20 pounder for the gas distro system, but I currently carry tanks to & from the welding shop in a backpack.Edit: as ncbeerbrewer points out though, simply splitting the gas line from a single tank allows you to carbonate and serve from the same take, so while an extra tank makes life easier it is not required.

Edited by chuck_d, 16 June 2009 - 01:58 PM.

[Deerslyr]

Yup. It "costs" $100, but I can get that $100 back so it's really not a cost at all. There is the one time cost of an extra regulator, but those cost about as much as the ingredients for one batch (10 gallons), and they also retain some resale value, although it's not exactly the same as a deposit where you just bring it back to the store and get your money back. I am in the process of building out a gas distribution system in my brewery with a secondary regulator that has 4 bodies, so I'm taking my old double body primary regulator and put that on the tank that I use for carbonating so I can carbonate two beers at different levels while they are "on deck" and just using a cheap primary to feed the secondary regulator. When my friend gets his car back I might upgrade to a 20 pounder for the gas distro system, but I currently carry tanks to & from the welding shop in a backpack.Edit: as ncbeerbrewer points out though, simply splitting the gas line from a single tank allows you to carbonate and serve from the same take, so while an extra tank makes life easier it is not required.

My tank is in the fridge will holds precisely two cornies and a 5 pound take with the two low flow regulators. Not room for much else and I'll admit I'm not planning on picking up another tank and regulator. I would contend that if you don't have the capacity for another tank or line, that sugar priming will keep your keg RTG (assuming you have the time).

[MtnBrewer]

Edit: as ncbeerbrewer points out though, simply splitting the gas line from a single tank allows you to carbonate and serve from the same take, so while an extra tank makes life easier it is not required.

I don't know about Deerslyr's setup but with mine, I would need another tank unless I want to take one of my taps off line. As I said earlier, if I didn't have a second tank, I'd probably adopt a priming system similar to his so that I always have a beer carbed up to take the place of another when it kicks.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I don't know about Deerslyr's setup but with mine, I would need another tank unless I want to take one of my taps off line. As I said earlier, if I didn't have a second tank, I'd probably adopt a priming system similar to his so that I always have a beer carbed up to take the place of another when it kicks.

This delay keeps me from drinking my beer too fast

[djinkc]

I've never considered priming a keg to carb. Of course I went with a 14.8 cf chest freezer for serving and carb/conditioning. 4 on tap, maybe a couple more that I can switch to and at least 4 carbing and conditioning. The manifold to run it wasn't that much but it's been a few years ago.I do have 2 regs, used to try and fast carb but found that with most of my ales it's better to just let it carb in a couple weeks or so at 10psi and it's ready to serve. Both regs are set at that now. But it's nice to have the capability if I wanted to use a different pressure.

[Deerslyr]

I don't know about Deerslyr's setup but with mine, I would need another tank unless I want to take one of my taps off line. As I said earlier, if I didn't have a second tank, I'd probably adopt a priming system similar to his so that I always have a beer carbed up to take the place of another when it kicks.

Not only would I have to take a tap off line, but I'd also have to pull it out of the fridge, renderning my nice new dual tap tower into a single tap tower (at least temporarily).

[MtnBrewer]

This delay keeps me from drinking my beer too fast

What is this "too fast" you speak of?

[chuck_d]

True, I was just pointing out that it is possible, or rather ncbeerbrewer was and I seconded his point. Obviously having more than one tank & regulator provides all sorts of conveniences beyond easily carbonating extra kegs. There is of course the option of running gas into the kegerator if you must only use one tank, this is a requirement for my upgrade from 2 to 4 taps on my kegerator; then the additional regulator actually only provides me the two main abilities of carbonating inside my chest freezer (which is just cold storage) and taking gas out of my apartment. I'm not trying to say anyone shouldn't prime, just that priming doesn't provide the unique advantage of being able to carbonate kegs on deck.Edit: man my typing is bad in this post.

Edited by chuck_d, 16 June 2009 - 04:04 PM.

[MtnBrewer]

I'm not trying to say anyone shouldn't prime, just that priming doesn't provide the unique advantage of being able to carbonate kegs on deck.

I'm not sure that anybody was making that claim. Just that with a setup like Deerslyr's, it appears to be the most convenient way.

[ncbeerbrewer]

True, I was just pointing out that it is possible, or rather ncbeerbrewer was and I seconded his point. Obviously having more than one tank & regulator provides all sorts of conveniences beyond easily carbonating extra kegs. There is of course the option of running gas into the kegerator if you must only use one tank, this is a requirement for my upgrade from 2 to 4 taps on my kegerator; then the additional regulator actually only provides me the two main abilities of carbonating inside my chest freezer (which is just cold storage) and taking gas out of my apartment. I'm not trying to say anyone shouldn't prime, just that priming doesn't provide the unique advantage of being able to carbonate kegs on deck.Edit: man my typing is bad in this post.

I guess I never gave it much thought when I got into it (kegging) I had a nice 10 cuft freezer that the in laws gave wife and me long ago and then wife let me use it to lager. When I made the kegerator I had that in addition to the other freezer. I used to just carb up a keg after one blew out and have to wait it out. I have to do that now too but I normally have 3 others to drink while one goes on gas. When I got the Bottling gun splitting the line let me carb a waiting keg and heck I had like 7 kegs to drink. Now I just stick with 4 taps and let the lager freezer lager and hold my beers. As to the carbing in a keg with sugar seeing if someone does not have the capacity to put on gas and still drink from their taps that method would be fine. I guess I was spoiled as I had a couple freezers when the kegger took shape. Hey whatever method works for you is best of course.

[chuck_d]

I'm not sure that anybody was making that claim. Just that with a setup like Deerslyr's, it appears to be the most convenient way.

This whole side conversation started back on posts 20 & 22 when I responded to Deerslyr's post. I don't know that deerslyr was trying to say it was exclusive, but it was semi-implied so I ncbrewer & I basically just tried to make it clear is all...

Edited by chuck_d, 16 June 2009 - 04:23 PM.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

What is this "too fast" you speak of?

Most people just think it's a myth so I understand your confusion

[Deerslyr]

This whole side conversation started back on posts 20 & 22 when I responded to Deerslyr's post. I don't know that deerslyr was trying to say it was exclusive, but it was semi-implied so I ncbrewer & I basically just tried to make it clear is all...

Didn't mean to imply it was exclusive. As stated many times, I use both methods successfully. Besides... I like sparring with you Chuck!

[chuck_d]

Didn't mean to imply it was exclusive. As stated many times, I use both methods successfully. Besides... I like sparring with you Chuck!

No doubt. I actually use both methods myself, just not in my kegs that can be force carbed. I save my priming sugar for those 5 L mini-kegs that use a phil-tap and call them my "casks". Your statement was ambiguous enough for me take a swing at the pitch

[Deerslyr]

No doubt. I actually use both methods myself, just not in my kegs that can be force carbed. I save my priming sugar for those 5 L mini-kegs that use a phil-tap and call them my "casks". Your statement was ambiguous enough for me take a swing at the pitch

I don't think I was ambiguous. I was very careful to craft my language to avoid the appearance of saying one way was better than the other. I was simply responding to the assertion that if you sugar prime, you might as well be using bottles. But, it's possible that I was in a haze of words at the moment... I do read and write all day long.

[chuck_d]

Ambiguous dammit! Okay, not ambiguous... nebulous.

[MolBasser]

CO2 is an odorless/tasteless gas however when in solution some of it becomes carbonic acid which is not odorless/tasteless. Your theory that it doesn't matter how the CO2 got there is correct, CO2 is CO2 and you don't get "finer" bubbles from primed versus forced carbonation.As a side note, excess CO2 is what stimulates your breathing, not a lack of O2. Take a whiff of CO2 and you'll get the point as you start coughing it up. It will also slightly burn. I've actually done this in at least two different ways, once I accidentally took a whiff from a keg I had just purged, the other time I dunked my head down into the chest freezer where I had been fermenting to pick something up and inhaled. It was similar though not as strong in chest freezer.

This.C02 is C02.With force carbing I can go from secondary to tapping out of my keggerator in 3 or 4 hours.BrewBasser