61 replies to this topic

[SWAGMAN]

Had a brewer contact me about a Rims build. The only ones I had seen where pictures so this is what I came up with. Easy break down and the removable element.God BlessSwagman

[SchwanzBrewer]

So there is a heating element in that tube? I would think that a HERMS would be easier to do and then there's no chance of scorching the wort. Anyway, looks good!Cheers,Rich

[djinkc]

Sweet. Sure would be nice to see pics of it disassembled.You didn't forget how to take it apart did you?

[BlKtRe]

So there is a heating element in that tube? I would think that a HERMS would be easier to do and then there's no chance of scorching the wort. Anyway, looks good!Cheers,Rich

A RIMS will allow you to ramp heat easier since you dont have to rely on a large volume of water to heat up like a HERMS. Only chance of scorching the wort is if the element is on and the pump is off. So you need to recirc. when heating. Looks good Swag. I will have to post pics of my dual element TC setup sometime.

[SchwanzBrewer]

A RIMS will allow you to ramp heat easier since you dont have to rely on a large volume of water to heat up like a HERMS. Only chance of scorching the wort is if the element is on and the pump is off. So you need to recirc. when heating. Looks good Swag. I will have to post pics of my dual element TC setup sometime.

Not to argue the merits of either method, but don't you need sparge water anyway? I guess that would make it easier to have your sparge water at a higher temp than the mash all ready to go instead of shutting off the pump and then heating the sparge water from mash temp to sparge temp.Cheers,Rich

[HVB]

A RIMS will allow you to ramp heat easier since you dont have to rely on a large volume of water to heat up like a HERMS.

My HERMS has a pretty good ramp rate but it is only sitting in a 1g container instead of the HLT.

[BlKtRe]

Not to argue the merits of either method, but don't you need sparge water anyway?Cheers,Rich

No argument. But I will tell you my experience with this scenario you mentioned. Yes you do have to heat sparge water anyway. So a few things. That sparge/HERMS water better be ready to work when you are ready to dough in. That means you will be heating that sparge/HERMS water at the same time as your strike water in another vessel. Two burners running at the same time. That sucks for most people. Then once mashed in you can use your HERMS water to do what you need. Most likely this water will cool off during your mash so you will have to bring it back up again or keep heat to it the entire mash. Or you can have a smaller 3rd vessel as Drez uses. I also have a small HERMS that is fired by a heating element. Most brewers dont want a 3rd vessel. My other HLT/HERMS (Sanke conversion) has a heating element too. This just maintains heat without having to fire the burner. For me all of this is nothing but a big PIA. Multiple burners running all the time, wasting propane for such a small benefit.This is why I too am ditching the HERMS and going with a RIMS. Not that it really matters with todays malt if steps mashes, etc. make a difference vs single infusion. Im sure mileage will vary for others.

Edited by BlKtRe, 12 April 2011 - 03:56 PM.

[realbeerguy]

The tri-clamps

[SchwanzBrewer]

No argument. But I will tell you my experience with this scenario you mentioned. Yes you do have to heat sparge water anyway. So a few things. That sparge/HERMS water better be ready to work when you are ready to dough in. That means you will be heating that sparge/HERMS water at the same time as your strike water in another vessel. Two burners running at the same time. That sucks for most people. Then once mashed in you can use your HERMS water to do what you need. Most likely this water will cool off during your mash so you will have to bring it back up again or keep heat to it the entire mash. Or you can have a smaller 3rd vessel as Drez uses. I also have a small HERMS that is fired by a heating element. Most brewers dont want a 3rd vessel. My other HLT/HERMS (Sanke conversion) has a heating element too. This just maintains heat without having to fire the burner. For me all of this is nothing but a big PIA. Multiple burners running all the time, wasting propane for such a small benefit.This is why I too am ditching the HERMS and going with a RIMS. Not that it really matters with todays malt if steps mashes, etc. make a difference vs single infusion. Im sure mileage will vary for others.

Honest noob question, since you are constantly recirculating the mash wort through the HLT (in HERMS), what is wrong with raising the temp to 170 for sparging (in the HLT), and then collecting the wort and sparging. It would seem that you wouldn't have the heat loss that you get when you batch sparge. So if the wort and grain is raised to 170 and the conversion stops, when the sparge water is introduced it is already the same temp.Can that time delay hurt the wort, or do something funky? We're only talking 22-16 deg in 5 minutes or less for a 5 gal batch recipe.Cheers,Rich

[BlKtRe]

Honest noob question, since you are constantly recirculating the mash wort through the HLT (in HERMS), what is wrong with raising the temp to 170 for sparging (in the HLT), and then collecting the wort and sparging. It would seem that you wouldn't have the heat loss that you get when you batch sparge. So if the wort and grain is raised to 170 and the conversion stops, when the sparge water is introduced it is already the same temp.Can that time delay hurt the wort, or do something funky? We're only talking 22-16 deg in 5 minutes or less for a 5 gal batch recipe.Cheers,Rich

Thats called a Mashout, as you seem to already know. There is nothing wrong with that, good practice. Just dont raise to those temps until your at least 45-60min into the mash. If you use a cooler MT and nail your mash temp on a single infusion, there is really no reason for a constant recirc. Just recirc. to mashout closing in on the end of your sac.(mash) rest. If you are using a MT that doesnt hold heat, then a constant recirc. is what you will need to do. Either way, a constant recirc. isn't a bad thing at all. You will already have your grain bed set as a filter all the while enjoying the smells of the mash with a beer in hand with no worries of working a batch sparge.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Thats called a Mashout, as you seem to already know. There is nothing wrong with that, good practice. Just dont raise to those temps until your at least 45-60min into the mash. If you use a cooler MT and nail your mash temp on a single infusion, there is really no reason for a constant recirc. Just recirc. to mashout closing in on the end of your sac.(mash) rest. If you are using a MT that doesnt hold heat, then a constant recirc. is what you will need to do. Either way, a constant recirc. isn't a bad thing at all. You will already have your grain bed set as a filter all the while enjoying the smells of the mash with a beer in hand with no worries of working a batch sparge.

I'm talking about a hypothetical HERMS system. I am under the impression that you circulate the entire time of the mash and hold the temp with your HLT water. Do the 60 minutes and then ramp up the HLT to 170, but keep circulating the wort from the MLT so it raises the grain bed to 170 as well. When both reach 170 start your sparge. I was asking about that lag period after 60 min to get from 148 to 154 (depending on the mash temp) to 170 to rinse the grains and collect the wort. I assume it would only take about 5 minutes to raise the temps, but I have no idea what affect that would have on the beer, if anything at all.Cheers,Rich

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

I'm talking about a hypothetical HERMS system. I am under the impression that you circulate the entire time of the mash and hold the temp with your HLT water. Do the 60 minutes and then ramp up the HLT to 170, but keep circulating the wort from the MLT so it raises the grain bed to 170 as well. When both reach 170 start your sparge. I was asking about that lag period after 60 min to get from 148 to 154 (depending on the mash temp) to 170 to rinse the grains and collect the wort. I assume it would only take about 5 minutes to raise the temps, but I have no idea what affect that would have on the beer, if anything at all.Cheers,Rich

I keep my hlt with a herms at 170 all of the time. If I want to step up the temp from 147 to 156, I turn on the pump. The wort coming out of the coil isn't 170. I don't do a mash out, but if I did my hlt would have to be warmer than 170 to get the mash to that temp. I mash in a cooler, so I only use the herms when step mashing.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

Had a brewer contact me about a Rims build. The only ones I had seen where pictures so this is what I came up with. Easy break down and the removable element.God BlessSwagman

Back on topic. Very Cool Swagman!!!

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

There are some really badass pid controlled tri clover heat sticks over here.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I keep my hlt with a herms at 170 all of the time. If I want to step up the temp from 147 to 156, I turn on the pump. The wort coming out of the coil isn't 170. I don't do a mash out, but if I did my hlt would have to be warmer than 170 to get the mash to that temp. I mash in a cooler, so I only use the herms when step mashing.

Now I am confused again. SWAGMAN, that is a neat piece of equipment, looks very professional, I'll not hijack the thread any more than I already have.Cheers,Rich

[Genesee Ted]

Now I am confused again. SWAGMAN, that is a neat piece of equipment, looks very professional, I'll not hijack the thread any more than I already have.Cheers,Rich

But I will I kind of understand how HERMS works, but how does RIMS work? BTW Swagman, nice piece. Sometimes you guys make me feel like I am brewing in the stone ages...

[SchwanzBrewer]

But I will I kind of understand how HERMS works, but how does RIMS work? BTW Swagman, nice piece. Sometimes you guys make me feel like I am brewing in the stone ages...

Separate heating element for the MLT only. So it keeps the MLT at temp and you can still change temps for sparging instantly with the HLT. Right?Cheers,Rich

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

But I will I kind of understand how HERMS works, but how does RIMS work? BTW Swagman, nice piece. Sometimes you guys make me feel like I am brewing in the stone ages...

Same concept, its a way to raise your mash temp. With a herms, the wort exits the MT, is pumped to a coil in the hlt that increases the temp of the wort as it flows through then reenters the MT. This raises the temp of the mash. With a rims, the wort exits the MT and is pumped into a tube that contains a heating element. The element raises the wort temp then the wort flows back into the MT.

[Genesee Ted]

So RIMS is more efficient, but risks scorching?

[SchwanzBrewer]

So RIMS is more efficient, but risks scorching?

Yes, but like Blktre said in post 4, so long as the pump is moving the wort there is little chance of that happening.Cheers,Rich