146 replies to this topic

[BlKtRe]

Well, the total amount of time it runs to keep the cooler at whatever temperature has to be the same no matter which way you do it. Hanging it in the air will keep the air temperature more consistent because that is what you are controlling. The gel will take longer to cool by which time the air is colder than your setpoint. And then the air will have to get warmer than your setpoint because the gel takes longer to warm up. I'll continue to keep mine hanging in the air.Since it will take longer to chill the gel, I think you will have more freezeups than if it is a shorter cycle controlling the air. And I do want the fridge to chill after I have warmed up the air by opening the door. That's kinda the whole point.

How big is your box and how cold can you go?

[gnef]

For me, I prefer longer cycles, especially with the thermal load that I have in the cooler. The longer off cycle in my mind is what allows any ice that built up to melt and evaporate. If you have short cycles, it doesn't give enough time for the ice to melt off.Also, with the thermal load that I was brining down to the desired temperatures - if I just had the probe in the air, the air might get to my set point, but due to the thermal load, it will not be indicative of the temperature of the beer inside the kegs.Also, short-cycling a compressor can cause it to die prematurely. In fact, I set my love controller to force a minimum of 20 minutes between two on cycles.I recall reading that another homebrewer that built a walk-in even changed the differential to 2 or 3 degrees, and considered it an improvement. This would cause it to have significantly longer on and off cycles.I think what Blktre said above is important to note - if our coolers were perfect and we never went in or out, measuring ambient would be fine.If you want the fridge to chill after opening the door, then I think we just have different philosophies on how to operate our coolers, which is fine. I personally want to utilize any thermal load in the cooler to my advantage so that the air conditioner is not short-cycled, and works for a longer period of time.

[BlKtRe]

Thanks gnef for explaining this. I was having trouble putting my thoughts to words. Anyhow tag, my experience is the same way as gnef in this instance. Wonder if I should try dropping my differential down another degree and see what happens. I have always had it at 1*.

[tag]

For me, I prefer longer cycles, especially with the thermal load that I have in the cooler. The longer off cycle in my mind is what allows any ice that built up to melt and evaporate. If you have short cycles, it doesn't give enough time for the ice to melt off.

Or, looking at it from the other side, the shorter the cycle, the less chance for ice to build up in the first place.

[djinkc]

Or, looking at it from the other side, the shorter the cycle, the less chance for ice to build up in the first place.

My chamber isn't as big as these guys have. I had icing problems when the bulb was in the fermenter and when it was in the air. I have it wrapped in a freezable pack for now. Haven't had an iceup in years. But mine's analog and I'd have to look to see what the differential is set at.

[gnef]

Or, looking at it from the other side, the shorter the cycle, the less chance for ice to build up in the first place.

I don't think it is that simple. Even in a short amount of time with the air conditioner on, I believe that the coils themselves can get below freezing very quickly even if the air coming out isn't below freezing. If you have a short cycle, the coils will still get to below freezing and start forming ice. If you also have a short off cycle, then that ice will stay there, as there will be latent cooling in the coils for a while after the air conditioner is turned off, and there is no air flow (unless you have attached separate fans like I have), which allows the air to stratify around the coils, and ultimately around the ice.So with the short cycles, you may not produce as much ice each time the air conditioner is on, but it will build up a lot faster than with longer cycles because of no time to be able to defrost.And to touch on reliability again - the shorter the cycles, the sooner the air conditioner will die. I've invested quite a bit of money into this walk-in, and each of the air conditioners were just a bit over $200, which I would rather not have to pay for again any time soon.If you are able to get your cooler to work as you desire with those settings, then that is awesome. For me though, this is how my system is working best right now with the longer cycles.

[djinkc]

I don't think it is that simple. Even in a short amount of time with the air conditioner on, I believe that the coils themselves can get below freezing very quickly even if the air coming out isn't below freezing. If you have a short cycle, the coils will still get to below freezing and start forming ice. If you also have a short off cycle, then that ice will stay there, as there will be latent cooling in the coils for a while after the air conditioner is turned off, and there is no air flow (unless you have attached separate fans like I have), which allows the air to stratify around the coils, and ultimately around the ice.So with the short cycles, you may not produce as much ice each time the air conditioner is on, but it will build up a lot faster than with longer cycles because of no time to be able to defrost.And to touch on reliability again - the shorter the cycles, the sooner the air conditioner will die. I've invested quite a bit of money into this walk-in, and each of the air conditioners were just a bit over $200, which I would rather not have to pay for again any time soon.If you are able to get your cooler to work as you desire with those settings, then that is awesome. For me though, this is how my system is working best right now with the longer cycles.

I think everyone's setup using these to cool is different, and there isn't a set approach. After all, they're not meant to be doing what we are using them for.And, this is the time of year to start looking for stock the stores want to unload. I recently bought a 5000 BTU analog unit from Sears for just under $100.00 + tax. Sooner or later I'll need it in a hurry when the other dies.

[gnef]

I've thought about the unit failing, and about keeping an AC unit on hand just in case, so I may be looking for a spare around the stores soon, but that may be hard to justify to the wife. Haha.I just finished installing the last few faucets and shanks for now. I am up to 9 faucets now!Next up is to take care of the gas lines, which is my main problem right now, especially since I want to be able to do 14 in the near future, and 20+ in the long term future.

[BlKtRe]

I have a 50# co2 bottle. Costs around $16 to fill. I keep it on the outside of my walkin. Gas tubing goes thru the walkin wall to a set of secondaries. I also have a whip off the reg. that is used for all my co2 racking transfers.

[gnef]

I have a bulkhead, which will be good enough for the CO2 going into the walk-in, I have two 50# tanks that I can use, along with a plethora of 20# tanks.My main concern right now with the gas is being able to split it enough for all my serving kegs with no leaks.I would eventually like to get a wall mount regulator, but that is not in the budget right now, neither is a premade manifold (I've only seen them up to 6 or 8, and they are expensive!). So I may just try to use what I already have (I have a 6 port, a 4 port, and a number of splitters), which I think will be able to hold me over for now, but if I keep adding more shanks and faucets as I want to, I will need to figure something else out.

[BlKtRe]

Personally, Id grow into the number of taps you may need. Do you really need 20 taps?

[gnef]

I still have a lot of beers that I can put on tap, along with meads as well if I wanted to. I am limiting my selection, even with 9 right now.Plus, when I do my vertical tasting for meads and ciders, 9 will definitely not be enough (5 years of traditional meads on three different types of oak, along with cysers, and hard ciders every year) I will most likely need to put some into the chest freezers for that tasting along with the walk-in.

[gnef]

Here are some final pictures:I was finally able to get some time to bring the CO2 and beergas tank down to the basement (a 50# steel tank is heavy!). I used my old bulkhead into the coffin box, and will need to get another one for the beergas.I've decided to not leave the CO2 and gas lines hooked up to the kegs. I will just recharge the kegs once in a while, depending on how much I've poured, and if I have a party or something, I'll plug things in for the event, but unplug it afterwards. There are just too many possibilities for leaks, and I really don't feel like lugging around a 50# tank to get refilled multiple times. Haha.Also, I am experimenting with using different beerline - on three of the lines I am using 3/16"IDx3/8"OD, and am using acetal john guest fittings attached to the liquid disconnect. This way if I want to change out lines, I don't need to worry about clamps, and I don't have to keep buying the flared nut barbs. So far, they seem to be working well for me.

[gnef]

I was finally able to change out 3 chrome plated shanks to stainless to match the rest, and bought two more sets. I am now sitting at 11 faucets from the coffin box, stainless all the way. 14 will get me one full row, but I don't think that will be enough for the selection that I am keeping in the walk-in cooler, so I will probably try to get it up to at least 20, and then see if that will be enough for what I have stored. Also, the acetal john guest fittings and the 3/16ID x 3/8 OD tubing is working well for me so far, so I think I am going to gradually transition to using these fittings for everything, liquid and gas, and standardize to this size tubing for liquid and gas as well.

[gnef]

I finished up the first row! I now have 14 faucets, all stainless hardware except for the stout faucet.I actually still have a number of kegs that I can add, so I may be adding more faucets in the future, but it won't be as high of a priority for me. I am pretty happy with 14 as it is now.

[positiveContact]

I am pretty happy with 14 as it is now.

just 14 taps.... ppfffftttt!!!

[SchwanzBrewer]

I finished up the first row! I now have 14 faucets, all stainless hardware except for the stout faucet.I actually still have a number of kegs that I can add, so I may be adding more faucets in the future, but it won't be as high of a priority for me. I am pretty happy with 14 as it is now.

Is the rest of the area going to be a mancave? 14 taps at home is just unreal.Cheers,Rich

[gnef]

The whole basement/garage is essentially my mancave. I have three chest freezers, an upright freezer, a mini-fridge (for yeast and smaller items), along with all my brewing equipment, the walk-in cooler, as well as my other power tools and pen-making supplies (another hobby I've gotten in to).

[Big Nake]

Dude. I have 2 sisters in the Atlanta area and don't think for one minute that I'm not coming over there to drink from every one of those 14 taps. It'll probably be 20 by the time I get there. Nicely done.

[gnef]

Haha. You are definitely welcome to stop by and see the setup! Just let me know when you want to come by.