41 replies to this topic

[djinkc]

I've heard it's pretty cool to see a keg that was eisened. Multiple thin vertical sheets of ice after it blew. It wasn't intentional but I he thought his my alcohol tolerance had been shot to hell.

[MtnBrewer]

I've heard it's pretty cool to see a keg that was eisened. Multiple thin vertical sheets of ice after it blew. It wasn't intentional but I he thought his my alcohol tolerance had been shot to hell.

That hasn't been my experience with frozen kegs. Ice floats so every time I've frozen one up, the surface looked like a duck pond in winter.

[djinkc]

That hasn't been my experience with frozen kegs. Ice floats so every time I've frozen one up, the surface looked like a duck pond in winter.

I think this one was because I put off defrosting the kegerator. Ice buildup on the wall was in direct contact with the keg. Never tried it again though........

[HarvInSTL]

I've been thinking about a 20-30% Blackbeery mead aged in port barrels. This just might be might ticket. (Yes I know wrong forum, but same eis'sque principle)

[Thirsty]

Me personally, I would rather use more of any source of sugar then find a work around to jack up the abv of my beverage....plus all grain makes better tasting beer! haha

This process does produce a smoother feel to the alcohol, rather then adding hotter alcohols from the get go. I have done it once- by mistake.

[denny]

truth!the idea that this is distillation is reinforced by the term I have heard several times of freeze distillation. I believe it is actually known as fractional freezing, is definitely not distillation or illegal and MUST be beer. I say must because if not then any of the many beer sold here at least with the word "ice" in the title would also not be beer.like this one: Though you might also say that the above is not "beer" for other reasons.....

AFAIK, that's a totally different process. My understanding is that they get the beer near freezing before filtering it.

[Stout_fan]

If the BJCP says it's beer, it's beer.And I'll judge it as beer.Classification 5D.

[earthtone]

AFAIK, that's a totally different process. My understanding is that they get the beer near freezing before filtering it.

All I know is that Molson Ice is listed as an example of fractional freezing in my encyclopedia. Alongside Eisbock.EDIT: Also used as an example on wikipedia, less reliable than my hardcopy but more accessible to all of you: ""Ice" beerThe process of "icing" beer involves bringing the temperature of a batch of beer down to or below the freezing point of water (32°F or 0°C). Because water freezes at a higher temperature than does alcohol, the frozen portion of the mixture contains a higher concentration of water, and the liquid remaining therefore has a higher concentration of alcohol. Because of this, a layer of ice can be skimmed from the surface of beer (hence the name "ice" beer). This creates a concoction with a higher volume ratio of alcohol to water and therefore creating a beer with a higher alcohol content by volume. The process is known as "fractional freezing."The first ice beer marketed in North America was Molson Ice [1] which was introduced in April 1993, although the process was patented earlier by Labatt, instigating the so-called "Ice Beer Wars" of the 1990s. [2]In the USA Miller introduced Icehouse under the Plank Road Brewery brand name at that time, which is still sold nationwide; Budweiser introduced "Bud Ice" (5.5% ABV) in 1994 and it remains one of the country's top-selling ice beers, Bud Ice has a slightly lower alcohol content than Natural Ice and other competitors and it claims it retains more of the character/flavor.Many lower-end beers such as Busch Ice (5.9% ABV) and Natural Ice (5.9% ABV) also use the freezing process."

[earthtone]

Also here's is an audio clip talking about Molson and Labatt's Ice Beer Wars from CBC radio back in 1993. Linky.

[zymot]

Distillation is the process to separate the alcohol from the rest of the fermented liquid.You can do this by taking advantage of the fact that alcohol has a different boiling or a different freezing temperature than water.When you separate enough alcohol from the water, you call it whiskey, or one of it's distilled grains cousins.So icing beer is clearly a type of distillation, because you are separating the water from the alcohol.If you are going to say Eisbock is still beer, despite the fact that it has gone through some distillation. The question generated is.If Eisbock is beer, how much more distillation must a beer go through for it to become whiskey? (or one of whiskey's cousins)zymot

[Big Nake]

If you are going to say Eisbock is still beer, despite the fact that it has gone through some distillation. The question generated is.If Eisbock is beer, how much more distillation must a beer go through for it to become whiskey? (or one of whiskey's cousins)zymot

I was just going to ask the same thing in a different way... if Eisbock is not beer, then what is it?

[denny]

Distillation is the process to separate the alcohol from the rest of the fermented liquid.You can do this by taking advantage of the fact that alcohol has a different boiling or a different freezing temperature than water.When you separate enough alcohol from the water, you call it whiskey, or one of it's distilled grains cousins.So icing beer is clearly a type of distillation, because you are separating the water from the alcohol.If you are going to say Eisbock is still beer, despite the fact that it has gone through some distillation. The question generated is.If Eisbock is beer, how much more distillation must a beer go through for it to become whiskey? (or one of whiskey's cousins)zymot

My understanding is that icing a beer is concentration, not distillation.

[zymot]

My understanding is that icing a beer is concentration, not distillation.

Then the follow up:What is the difference between concentration and distillation? Could you I know I am being a bit pedantic, but the OP is about nailing down the subtle differences between beer processes and definitions.zymot

[earthtone]

Then the follow up:What is the difference between concentration and distillation? Could you I know I am being a bit pedantic, but the OP is about nailing down the subtle differences between beer processes and definitions.zymot

the difference is that in concentration you remove water and have more alcohol in the remaining liquid, in distillation you need to isolate alcohol from the liquid. In fractional freezing you never actually get pure alcohol distilled from a solution, but rather you are distilling water from the solution and thus concentrating the alcohol in the remaining solution. Maybe splitting hairs but I believe that gets at the heart of it.also Ken: I don't know the answer to that but an example is a beer like tactical nuclear penguin that gets up pretty high (~30% ABV) while still being a stout, and IMHO beer.

[Thirsty]

My understanding is that icing a beer is concentration, not distillation.

Which is IMHO within the realms of brewing not distilling. If you were to introduce fortification like sherries or ports, than I could understand the argument of alcohol collection, but in icing there is no alcohol added, just moisture removed. As was previously stated, no different then a longer boil time.

[Jimmy James]

Distillation is the process of separating different components of a mixture by their different vapor pressure in a boiling solution.

[japh]

I'll say that there is some arbitrary percentage of water taken out that would move it away from being 'beer' in my eyes.Many applejacks are cider that's been frozen, with the water taken off. At some point, it stops being cider and becomes applejack. At some point, Eisbock stops being beer and is some sort of other beverage.

[MtnBrewer]

Distillation is the process of separating different components of a mixture by their different vapor pressure in a boiling solution.

That's your definition. The gubmint can define it however they choose to.

[zymot]

That's your definition. The gubmint can define it however they choose to.

Early on in my brewing education. I was told that you could not distill alcohol without a license. Freezing beer and removing some ice, in the eyes of the law, qualified as distilling. Years later, I just have taken others word that this is true.From a practical standpoint, I never thought too much about it. If I wanted to freeze/distill my beer I would do it and not worry about that it may or may not be "illegal." Much the same as going 66 MPH is "illegal".From my homebrewer respective, barley, hops, water & yeast make beer. If you employ some trick to concentrate the beer, like freezing, IMHO it is still beer.zymot

[MtnBrewer]

Early on in my brewing education. I was told that you could not distill alcohol without a license. Freezing beer and removing some ice, in the eyes of the law, qualified as distilling. Years later, I just have taken others word that this is true.From a practical standpoint, I never thought too much about it. If I wanted to freeze/distill my beer I would do it and not worry about that it may or may not be "illegal." Much the same as going 66 MPH is "illegal".From my homebrewer respective, barley, hops, water & yeast make beer. If you employ some trick to concentrate the beer, like freezing, IMHO it is still beer.zymot

I agree completely. However there is some question whether "ice distilling" is illegal for homebrewers. Certainly for a commercial brewery it would be unless they had the appropriate licensing.