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BIAB Pros/Cons


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#21 postSingularityHumanoid

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Posted 03 December 2022 - 10:31 AM

As you pull up the bag to drain you introduce splashing and a O2 nightmare.

 

only a nightmare if you are worried about it :D



#22 Hines

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Posted 03 December 2022 - 11:33 AM

I thought you still want the presence of O2 at that point! Dammit

#23 postSingularityHumanoid

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Posted 03 December 2022 - 11:57 AM

I thought you still want the presence of O2 at that point! Dammit

 

def on the cold side but prior to that it might be good to avoid.  jury is still out on how much it matters I think.



#24 Hines

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Posted 03 December 2022 - 02:21 PM

But aren’t you aerating with O2 when you rack to primary?

#25 postSingularityHumanoid

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Posted 03 December 2022 - 02:30 PM

But aren’t you aerating with O2 when you rack to primary?

 

right, that's cold side so it's fine.  there is some evidence you might want to avoid introducing O2 when the wort is still hot.  I have no idea how much this really matters.


Edited by postSingularityHumanoid, 03 December 2022 - 02:31 PM.


#26 Hines

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Posted 03 December 2022 - 08:16 PM

I can’t imagine a ton of O2 could come from that dripping.

#27 HVB

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Posted 03 December 2022 - 08:35 PM

I can’t imagine a ton of O2 could come from that dripping.


You would be surprised. Seriously. I do things on the hot side to help but worry a lot more on the cold side. Have to pick your battles and all of that...

#28 postSingularityHumanoid

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Posted 04 December 2022 - 05:27 AM

You would be surprised. Seriously. I do things on the hot side to help but worry a lot more on the cold side. Have to pick your battles and all of that...

 

I haven't kept up with your process lately but what are you worried about on the cold side?

 

and I am a little surprised you still BIAB if you are also taking measures to avoid HSA.  I guess everything counts though so if BIAB is the main "issue" maybe it's still better than not doing the other stuff.  I really don't know.



#29 HVB

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Posted 04 December 2022 - 06:30 AM

I haven't kept up with your process lately but what are you worried about on the cold side?

and I am a little surprised you still BIAB if you are also taking measures to avoid HSA. I guess everything counts though so if BIAB is the main "issue" maybe it's still better than not doing the other stuff. I really don't know.


I guess what I was trying to say is the cold side has a bigger impact on oxygenation and that is where I put most of my efforts. I will use the yeast/sugar mix in my water, minimize splashing, etc on the hot side but nothing crazy.

#30 postSingularityHumanoid

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Posted 04 December 2022 - 08:31 AM

I guess what I was trying to say is the cold side has a bigger impact on oxygenation and that is where I put most of my efforts. I will use the yeast/sugar mix in my water, minimize splashing, etc on the hot side but nothing crazy.

 

maybe we mean different things when we say "cold side".  I'm probably using it a little incorrectly but in this case I mean post chilling but not after fermentation.  I avoid the shit out of O2 after fermentation for sure.  I assume you don't avoid O2 after chilling but before fermentation.



#31 HVB

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Posted 04 December 2022 - 09:06 AM

I add oxygen from a bottle for yeast but that is it. Chilled wort goes into the fermenter to never have ambient air touch it till it is in my glass. Closed transfer, ferment and another closed transfer to the keg or can.

#32 Gusso

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Posted 04 December 2022 - 09:58 AM

I do closed transfers but I stopped using bottled O2 about a year ago. I haven't noticed any difference.

#33 postSingularityHumanoid

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Posted 04 December 2022 - 10:00 AM

I add oxygen from a bottle for yeast but that is it. Chilled wort goes into the fermenter to never have ambient air touch it till it is in my glass. Closed transfer, ferment and another closed transfer to the keg or can.

 

okay, that all makes sense.

 

just wanted to make sure there was agreement on where O2 should be avoided vs not.  the only time I look to add it would be similar to what you are saying (right before fermentation with cool/cold wort).  avoid O2 in all other situations seems beneficial.  I def agree that post fermentation is the most critical time.  what I think is a little unclear is how important it is to avoid when the mash/wort is still hot.  it probably matters some but I don't know how much.....


I do closed transfers but I stopped using bottled O2 about a year ago. I haven't noticed any difference.

 

yeah, when I rant out of O2 I stopped using it and never looked back.  I do get some decent splashing when I drain into my fermentor though.  going from my garage down to my basement is a pretty good drop.  no way it's as much O2 as using a tank and O2 stone though.



#34 Hines

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Posted 05 December 2022 - 07:52 AM

don't we have any scientists on the board any more?   Considering warm water can hold less oxygen than cold, maybe folks are wasting their time working about the "warm side"



#35 HVB

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Posted 05 December 2022 - 09:24 AM

don't we have any scientists on the board any more?   Considering warm water can hold less oxygen than cold, maybe folks are wasting their time working about the "warm side"

 

Some agree with this and some do not but there is a German Brewing Forum that has done extensive studies, although most are behind a paywall, that show hot side is an issue.  It really just depends on how far you want to take it and I also feel it depends on what you are brewing.  Lagers and NEIPAs do show a lot of degradation from O2 but for me, I do the small steps on the hot side and focus hard on teh cold side.  The zealots will say if you do not take all the precautions before you mash the grain you are wasting your time. 



#36 neddles

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Posted 06 December 2022 - 10:53 AM

What are you all doing for a step mash protocol? I could easily do that with my Anvil with recirculating pump. Start at 140 and heat to 165-170? I get about 1 degree/minute so could essentially just do the entire mash as a temperature increase (typically I mash for 45 minutes).

Mash at 148F for 30 min and the raise to 162F which takes about 7-10 minutes, IIRC. (Im heating over a turkey burner) Complete the hour at 162F.


Edited by neddles, 06 December 2022 - 10:53 AM.


#37 denny

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Posted 06 December 2022 - 12:46 PM

What are you all doing for a step mash protocol? I could easily do that with my Anvil with recirculating pump. Start at 140 and heat to 165-170? I get about 1 degree/minute so could essentially just do the entire mash as a temperature increase (typically I mash for 45 minutes).

It depends entirely on the malt I'm using.  That's 90% of what should really determine if or how you step mash. For a lot of malt, a single infusion is fine.  For some, I do a 45 min. at 145 and 45 at 158.  For some, like Crisp Hana,  I do 10 at 131, 90 at 148, 30 at 155, and 10 at 168.



#38 postSingularityHumanoid

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Posted 06 December 2022 - 01:26 PM

It depends entirely on the malt I'm using. That's 90% of what should really determine if or how you step mash. For a lot of malt, a single infusion is fine. For some, I do a 45 min. at 145 and 45 at 158. For some, like Crisp Hana, I do 10 at 131, 90 at 148, 30 at 155, and 10 at 168.


Are you basing this on specs from the malter?

Edited by postSingularityHumanoid, 06 December 2022 - 02:21 PM.


#39 neddles

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Posted 06 December 2022 - 10:23 PM

Denny step mashing? Man how times have changed!

#40 porter

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Posted 06 December 2022 - 10:44 PM

He's going to order a whirligig next.




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