43 replies to this topic

[denny]

Here's to a speedy recovery.  

 

Thanks, Ken.

 

The one issue I keep running into is that I can't get anyone to tell me the cubes they use for no chill are food safe at 200F.  But I'm still looking.

[armagh]

Just returned from Australia and probably 90% or more of the homebrewers there use this method.  Based on the beers I tasted, it works so well that you really can't tell the difference.  as soon as I recover from hip surgery and can brew again, I intend to really delve into it.

 

All the best for a speedy recovery.  Scheduled for a spinal epidural in early December.  Ugh.

[HVB]

Thanks, Ken.

The one issue I keep running into is that I can't get anyone to tell me the cubes they use for no chill are food safe at 200F. But I'm still looking.

Could a SS fermenter not be used?

[jayb151]

Thanks, Ken.

 

The one issue I keep running into is that I can't get anyone to tell me the cubes they use for no chill are food safe at 200F.  But I'm still looking.

 

I used plastic the first time I tried it. The beer was actually awesome, but the problem was that the pressure of the hot wort made me afraid the plastic would blow. Then once it cooled, the pressure crushed the plastic. Never again.

 

I use a corny that I hit with 10 lbs and turn upside down. After about 30 minutes, I flip it right side up again, and leave it in my cold Chicago garage overnight. I then ferment in the same corny. Let me know if you had any questions and cheers!

[HVB]

I used plastic the first time I tried it. The beer was actually awesome, but the problem was that the pressure of the hot wort made me afraid the plastic would blow. Then once it cooled, the pressure crushed the plastic. Never again.

 

I use a corny that I hit with 10 lbs and turn upside down. After about 30 minutes, I flip it right side up again, and leave it in my cold Chicago garage overnight. I then ferment in the same corny. Let me know if you had any questions and cheers!

2 questions.

 

1 - what is your volume if you are using a corny to ferment?

2 - do you alter your hop schedule for the extended time it is warm?

 

LOL - I had asked questions on this back in 2012 I guess.  https://brews-bros.c...-chill-chilling

Edited by drez77, 02 November 2018 - 06:08 AM.

[jayb151]

I usually shoot for 4.5 gallons and have cut the dip tube by about 1 inch to take into account the shputzTM.

 

As for hopping, I'm not certain yet what the answer is, but yes you have account for it. I've only recently figured out that philosophy on hopping schedules has changed so much since I took a break from brewing. I mean, I knew flameout hops were important, but it seems like people are putting something like 70+% of their hops in after flameout now! Totally different from when I was brewing before where you had a bittering, flavor, and aroma addition haha.

 

In an ideal world, I'd like to ferment only in the keg, but that means no dry hopping for me as it will clog. I have considered something like a wire screen on the tube, or putting dryhops in a screen but I've simply not experimented enough yet. 

 

The batch I've got fermenting now is the most hoppy beer I've made recently (but still not that hoppy) so we'll see how it turns out. If you remind me, I swear I'll give you the recipe and my impressions when it's done 

[HVB]

I usually shoot for 4.5 gallons and have cut the dip tube by about 1 inch to take into account the shputzTM.

 

As for hopping, I'm not certain yet what the answer is, but yes you have account for it. I've only recently figured out that philosophy on hopping schedules has changed so much since I took a break from brewing. I mean, I knew flameout hops were important, but it seems like people are putting something like 70+% of their hops in after flameout now! Totally different from when I was brewing before where you had a bittering, flavor, and aroma addition haha.

 

In an ideal world, I'd like to ferment only in the keg, but that means no dry hopping for me as it will clog. I have considered something like a wire screen on the tube, or putting dryhops in a screen but I've simply not experimented enough yet. 

 

The batch I've got fermenting now is the most hoppy beer I've made recently (but still not that hoppy) so we'll see how it turns out. If you remind me, I swear I'll give you the recipe and my impressions when it's done 

 

I have a few beers that are all flameout and dh. Those tend to be my favorites!

 

So for the bolded part, why?  It is just so there is no transfer and you have the unitank method going or some other reason.  Not against it just trying to clarify.

[jayb151]

Just making sure I understand the question, you mean why do I want to do a unitank method?

 

I simply prefer not to transfer it. My current setup is to transfer from a liquid out to a "liquid in." I simply put two liquid connections on a bit of tubing and vent pressure on the empty keg to transfer. This method works perfectly fine, but I don't have a very easy way of cleaning that tubing so it's just kind of a PITA. If I can unitank, it would solve this clean up problem for me.

 

The one thing I will not do, however is sacrifice the quality of beer for convenience(at least not in this case). I haven't tried the unitank method yet, but was reading about a guy who did on the low O2 forum (thanks Ken). I always thought that using a unitank would give a kind of yeast bite or other off flavors, but I'm willing to try it since people seem to be having success with it. 

 

So, I guess I'm at the point where unitank would be nice, but if it makes my beer worse, I'll keep transferring to a serving keg. I'm about to throw my first unitank beer into the kegerator, so I'll let you guys know how it goes!

[positiveContact]

Just making sure I understand the question, you mean why do I want to do a unitank method?

 

I simply prefer not to transfer it. My current setup is to transfer from a liquid out to a "liquid in." I simply put two liquid connections on a bit of tubing and vent pressure on the empty keg to transfer. This method works perfectly fine, but I don't have a very easy way of cleaning that tubing so it's just kind of a PITA. If I can unitank, it would solve this clean up problem for me.

 

The one thing I will not do, however is sacrifice the quality of beer for convenience(at least not in this case). I haven't tried the unitank method yet, but was reading about a guy who did on the low O2 forum (thanks Ken). I always thought that using a unitank would give a kind of yeast bite or other off flavors, but I'm willing to try it since people seem to be having success with it. 

 

So, I guess I'm at the point where unitank would be nice, but if it makes my beer worse, I'll keep transferring to a serving keg. I'm about to throw my first unitank beer into the kegerator, so I'll let you guys know how it goes!

 

if you don't move it I think it would be fine.  I wouldn't want the krausen stuck to the sides of the tank to fall in but otherwise I bet you'd be good.

[jayb151]

if you don't move it I think it would be fine.  I wouldn't want the krausen stuck to the sides of the tank to fall in but otherwise I bet you'd be good.

 

I'm totally pleading ignorance here but why? 

[HVB]

I'm totally pleading ignorance here but why? 

I assume it would just muck up the beer. I think if you used a floating diptube on the beer side it would not make much of a difference if a little came off.

[denny]

All the best for a speedy recovery.  Scheduled for a spinal epidural in early December.  Ugh.

 

Ugh indeed!  Hope all goes well.

Could a SS fermenter not be used?

 

I would think so.  I may try it with one of my 10 gal. cornies.  Cornies of any size seem very scarce in Australia.  I'd say almost all the homebrewers I met bottle.  When we asked who kegged during our talk at the conference, I think we had 2 out of 200.  The lack of cornies would explain why they went to cubes.

[denny]

I usually shoot for 4.5 gallons and have cut the dip tube by about 1 inch to take into account the shputzTM.

 

As for hopping, I'm not certain yet what the answer is, but yes you have account for it. I've only recently figured out that philosophy on hopping schedules has changed so much since I took a break from brewing. I mean, I knew flameout hops were important, but it seems like people are putting something like 70+% of their hops in after flameout now! Totally different from when I was brewing before where you had a bittering, flavor, and aroma addition haha.

 

In an ideal world, I'd like to ferment only in the keg, but that means no dry hopping for me as it will clog. I have considered something like a wire screen on the tube, or putting dryhops in a screen but I've simply not experimented enough yet. 

 

The batch I've got fermenting now is the most hoppy beer I've made recently (but still not that hoppy) so we'll see how it turns out. If you remind me, I swear I'll give you the recipe and my impressions when it's done 

 

I had mentioned a possible issue with late hops with this method on the podcast, so an Aussie homebrewer brought me an IPA he had made with the method.  He went ahead and added his flameout hops as normal, but then dry hopped heavily rather doing something like a whirlpool addition.  The beer was stellar.  He recently sent me an email detailing his method.  I'll share it with you guys next week after I'm caught up.

[denny]

I usually shoot for 4.5 gallons and have cut the dip tube by about 1 inch to take into account the shputzTM.

 

As for hopping, I'm not certain yet what the answer is, but yes you have account for it. I've only recently figured out that philosophy on hopping schedules has changed so much since I took a break from brewing. I mean, I knew flameout hops were important, but it seems like people are putting something like 70+% of their hops in after flameout now! Totally different from when I was brewing before where you had a bittering, flavor, and aroma addition haha.

 

In an ideal world, I'd like to ferment only in the keg, but that means no dry hopping for me as it will clog. I have considered something like a wire screen on the tube, or putting dryhops in a screen but I've simply not experimented enough yet. 

 

The batch I've got fermenting now is the most hoppy beer I've made recently (but still not that hoppy) so we'll see how it turns out. If you remind me, I swear I'll give you the recipe and my impressions when it's done 

 

Why not use a hop bag for dry hopping in the keg?

[HVB]

I would think so.  I may try it with one of my 10 gal. cornies.  Cornies of any size seem very scarce in Australia.  I'd say almost all the homebrewers I met bottle.  When we asked who kegged during our talk at the conference, I think we had 2 out of 200.  The lack of cornies would explain why they went to cubes.

 

Ok.  I did not know if there was something special about the cubes.  My SS fermenters should work just fine.  Actually, now that I think about it I did this once sort of by transferring in the wort at about 160 onto hops and just let it come down to temp before pitching.  It was my way of trying to not do a WP addition in the kettle.  Beer was good.

 

Good luck with the hip... sounds like you will need some NEIPAs

[jayb151]

Why not use a hop bag for dry hopping in the keg?

 

That's an idea. I just hate messing with hop bags in the fermenter/serving vessel. Like I said, I just haven't been doing it enough to get all the variables down.

 

Honestly, I thought I was an "intermediate/advanced" brewer years ago before I had to take a break. Now I feel like I'm learning everything from scratch now. Brewing has come a long way since my hiatus! But my most recent beer is chugging away and I'm going to be throwing it into the kegerator soon. It is an IPA but I didn't plan to dry hop for the reasons I already mentioned. I kind of want to see how it turns out with just flameout hops, and my next batch can get the hop bag. Do people still do the bag on a string of floss thing? lol

[denny]

Ok.  I did not know if there was something special about the cubes.  My SS fermenters should work just fine.  Actually, now that I think about it I did this once sort of by transferring in the wort at about 160 onto hops and just let it come down to temp before pitching.  It was my way of trying to not do a WP addition in the kettle.  Beer was good.

 

Good luck with the hip... sounds like you will need some NEIPAs

 

I realized I do it all the time with the Zymatic!

Ok.  I did not know if there was something special about the cubes.  My SS fermenters should work just fine.  Actually, now that I think about it I did this once sort of by transferring in the wort at about 160 onto hops and just let it come down to temp before pitching.  It was my way of trying to not do a WP addition in the kettle.  Beer was good.

 

Good luck with the hip... sounds like you will need some NEIPAs

 

Due to the narcotics, I'll have to stop drinking entirely for a couple weeks.

Here's the email I got that may answer some questions...

 

Hi guys,

 

I'm Jeff and I live south of Sydney, Australia.

Last night at Batch Brewing was a lot of fun and it was great to meet you both.

I hope you have both had ok flights home and are resting with a beer in hand while reading this.

 

I really appreciate that you took some time to try my home brew.   

I'm not sure what info you need but I have included quite a bit below that I'm hoping is helpful, including a bit about me.

 

I've been brewing for around 2 years, and started thanks to the influence of my brother-in-law Sam, who was with me last night and also spoke with you both.

My wife bought me a Coopers/Mr Beer 8.5L craft kit for fathers day in 2016 and I haven't looked back, 

At the time Sam was starting to brew BIAB with good results so after I brewed about 8-10 craft can based recipes I started buying bits for an upgrade to all grain.

The final push and encouragement to start all grain came from a conversation with head brewer and owner of Akasha Brewing, Dave Padden.

Akasha is a Sydney brewery, hopefully you were able to try some of their beers while you were here, they are awesome.

I now exclusively brew all grain BIAB and I also No Chill all my batches.

I use a 2.4kW 40L hot water urn as my mash & boil vessel. 

I wrap it in a queen size doona for insulation during mashing, I have recently been leaving the insulation on for boiling too as it gives me a slightly better rolling boil, approx 3 ltr/hr (approx 3/4 gallon/hr).

 

The beer you tried is a modified version of the MACC IPA on the Brulosophy website, which is Ray Found's recipe. http://brulosophy.co...a-by-ray-found/

We can't get Gambrinus Honey malt easily here in Australia so I substituted that for Gladfield Toffee malt. Gladfield make awesome malts and 2 of them make up the bulk of this grist.

I also subbed the FWH Magnum which I didn't have any of for a FWH Mosaic addition and for a reason I can't remember I reduced the amount of the 20min Citra addition.

The malts I translated to metric and scaled to my system using BeerSmith.

Salts and acid was worked out using Brun Water.

 

OG 1.068, FG 1.015, ABV ~7.1%, IBU ~77 

5.5kg Gladfield American Ale

1.0kg Chateau Munich Light (Castle) 

300g Gladfield Toffee Malt

8g CaSO4, 1g CaCl. (SO4 to Cl ratio 2:1)

3ml 96% phosphoric acid. Mash PH 5.3

60 min mash at 65.5°C (~150°F)

60 min boil

10g Mosaic FWH

15g Citra 20 min

50g Amarillo, 50g Mosaic, 50g Citra, 20g Centennial FO/Steep 20 min

Dry Hop for each 11L cube 25g Amarillo, 25g Mosaic, 20g Citra

 

I brewed this batch on August 6th at Sam's place, my setup is reasonably portable.

During the steep the wort dropped in temp from boiling to 90°C (~194°F). 

I split the hot wort into 2 x 10L (aprox 11L full volume) cubes. 

Before sealing I pushed out all the air I could then sealed the screw on lids tight, once sealed I placed them on their side so the cap can pasteurize and they continued to cool naturally.

I cleaned all my equipment, loaded it and the still warm cubes in the back of my ute and took them home to ferment at a later date. This is one of the benefits of no chill Brew when you can and pitch when you're ready.

 

The first cube I opened poured into the and pitched the WLP090 on 14/08/18.

The second cube, the one you tried, I opened and pitched the WLP090 on 12/10/18.

Both fermented at 19°C in my 15L fermenter, temp controlled in a bar fridge using a BrewPi. They were dry hopped at 6 days for 2 days then cold crashed and fined with gelatin.

 

I'm really happy with the way it turned out and by the sound of it you guys liked it too.

I would appreciate any further feedback or comments you can give me.

 

This was the first recipe I have done where I fully adjusted my water profile.

This is after listening to podcasts by both you and Brulosophy regarding importance of water minerals and mash PH.

 

Both batches were kegged and I filled the bottles I gave you on Monday night.

 

The reasons I wanted you both to try it is: 

1. I think it's great and wanted to share it, also hoping for some for some unbiased feedback

2. Denny mentioned a few months back that he didn't think no chill would work for hop forward beers, just wondering after meeting Aussie brewers and trying this beer what you think now

 

Sorry it's a long email, hopefully most of this was useful / interesting.

Look out for me on Instagram, I'm @fromac and I'm planning to post more home brewing pics in the future.

 

Please let me know if you need more info on my process or recipe formulations.

All the best for your upcoming hip replacement operation Denny. 

 

Happy brewing 

[positiveContact]

I'm totally pleading ignorance here but why? 

 

I hear those chunks taste pretty bitter but I can't say I've ever tried

[jayb151]

 

The first cube I opened poured into the and pitched the WLP090 on 14/08/18.

The second cube, the one you tried, I opened and pitched the WLP090 on 12/10/18.

 

WHAT!? He let the unfermented beer sit around for two months!? And here I am worrying about letting mine sit around for a day and a half!

 

Cheers Denny, I think you just destroyed this thread 

[denny]

WHAT!? He let the unfermented beer sit around for two months!? And here I am worrying about letting mine sit around for a day and a half!

 

Cheers Denny, I think you just destroyed this thread 

 

Basically, when the wort goes into the cube at near boiling temps, it's pasteurized.  The owner of one of the largest homebrew shops in Australia sells premade wort that's made basically the same way.  He showed us his warehouse, with hundreds of 20L containers of various types of wort.  I was incredulous, but he told me it stays good for months like that.  Tried a beer made with it and damn, it was good!