72 replies to this topic

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

OK, what I have gotten out of this thread so far is that shaking is the best way to aerate, so we should all run out and spend money on O2 systems. Something I have been thinking about is the temperature at which we aerate. I have read that above 80F is bad because of Hot Side Aeration, so I usually chill to pitching temp (somewhere below 70, depending on style) before aerating. But more O2 will dissolve in cold wort right? So how about over-chilling before aerating?- Jim

actually there is no comparison to pure O2 introduction in the source I found so your sarcasm might be ill-founded.

[tag]

For 5 gallon regular-strength ales, shaking the bejeesus out of it is fine for oxygenation.But for big ales, lagers, and batches larger than 5 gallons, direct O2 injection becomes better.

[JimInNJ]

Sorry if my comment came across as overly sarcastic. I reread the source and see that it did not compare pure O2, and obviously shaking is not practical for large batches. Just trying to be funny.However I am serious about the concept of chilling to below fermentation temperature before aerating. I know, not practical for some. But if we get the wort very cold and then aerate with a less that ideal method to less that 100% saturation, will not the % saturation increase as the wort warms back up to fermentation temperature?- Jim

[tag]

Yep.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

For 5 gallon regular-strength ales, shaking the bejeesus out of it is fine for oxygenation.But for big ales, lagers, and batches larger than 5 gallons, direct O2 injection becomes better.

I agree this is likely the case - what I'm curious about is at what point is shaking not good enough in terms of OG. This entire thread is being prompted by the fact that I want to brew a fairly high OG beer (1.080ish).

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Sorry if my comment came across as overly sarcastic. I reread the source and see that it did not compare pure O2, and obviously shaking is not practical for large batches. Just trying to be funny.However I am serious about the concept of chilling to below fermentation temperature before aerating. I know, not practical for some. But if we get the wort very cold and then aerate with a less that ideal method to less that 100% saturation, will not the % saturation increase as the wort warms back up to fermentation temperature?- Jim

no no - not overly sarcastic, I think you might have just misread the information and it appears that may have been the case. I think your idea of chilling to below ferm temps would probably work but as you mention a lot of people might not be able to chill like this.

[BarefootBrews]

However I am serious about the concept of chilling to below fermentation temperature before aerating. I know, not practical for some. But if we get the wort very cold and then aerate with a less that ideal method to less that 100% saturation, will not the % saturation increase as the wort warms back up to fermentation temperature?

I would think that it's not practical for anyone to do that. Cool wort below fermentation (i.e. pitching) temp...aerate to < 100% saturation....warm wort back to pitching temps to achieve 100% saturation of O2...pitch yeast. I have enough difficulty getting wort down to pitching temps in the first place, much less below them.

[JimInNJ]

Not practical for most folks perhaps, but I did it accidentally on my last batch. That's what got me thinking about it.I ferment in a Better Bottle which sits in an Igloo Ice Cube cooler on wheels. Since my CFC is not efficient at getting all the way down to pitching temp, I let my BB bob in a ice bath as it fills. I can get the wort as cold as I want.- Jim

[No Party JKor]

I think the limit of oxygenation is 8ppm with any of the methods using air. It's much higher with pure oxygen, 12-15ppm. I found a good tidbit of information on another forum...Wyeast has done some experiments oxygenating 5 gallons of wort. Their results showed that oxygenating with pure O2 using a 2 micron stone and 3.5L/min flow rate gave a oxygen concentration of 12 ppm in 1 minute. I think the 1 minute duration has been the conventional wisdom for oxygenation time using pure O2 with a stone, but adding the information about the flow rate is useful, especially for those that have access to a gas flow meter for their oxygen.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Just some cost analysis for you guys:Option 1: real O2 tank (20lbs), regulator, aeration stone, tubing, etc., cost: $100+Option 2: oxygenation kit from B3, cost: $30Now option 1 would leave me with what I'm going to call an infinite supply of O2 (likely over 150 5 gal batches worth). Option 2 would require me to spend approximately $1 for every 5 gallon batch of beer using the disposable O2 tanks. This means I'd have to make at least 70 batches before the savings of option 1 would start to manifest themselves. This would take me at least 3-4 years and honestly I really only need to do this for higher gravity batches of beer.Am I thinking about this all wrong? It seems to me that unless the up front cost of option 1 can be brought way down it doesn't seem worth it for most of us. Also - many thanks to JK for the many PMs discussing this and helping me figure some things out - you da man.

[HVB]

Just some cost analysis for you guys:Option 1: real O2 tank (20lbs), regulator, aeration stone, tubing, etc., cost: $100+Option 2: oxygenation kit from B3, cost: $30Now option 1 would leave me with what I'm going to call an infinite supply of O2 (likely over 150 5 gal batches worth). Option 2 would require me to spend approximately $1 for every 5 gallon batch of beer using the disposable O2 tanks. This means I'd have to make at least 70 batches before the savings of option 1 would start to manifest themselves. This would take me at least 3-4 years and honestly I really only need to do this for higher gravity batches of beer.Am I thinking about this all wrong? It seems to me that unless the up front cost of option 1 can be brought way down it doesn't seem worth it for most of us. Also - many thanks to JK for the many PMs discussing this and helping me figure some things out - you da man.

I have an un-used areation stone that I will donate to the cause of getting your wort more oxygen.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I have an un-used areation stone that I will donate to the cause of getting your wort more oxygen.

I'll take it!now, how will I get it?

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I'll take it!now, how will I get it?

also - I love this place!