102 replies to this topic

[HVB]

I would give it a try if I were you Ken. Your typical grists contain a good bit of diastatic power and never anything that can be slow to convert such as flaked grain. However I would want to have some OG and FG data to see what is actually happening. And I know you don't ever measure gravity.

Completely agree with this.  I would do one at 30 minutes and compare to what you normal do.  You know your beers well enough to tell if there is a difference.

[Big Nake]

I would give it a try if I were you Ken. Your typical grists contain a good bit of diastatic power and never anything that can be slow to convert such as flaked grain. However I would want to have some OG and FG data to see what is actually happening. And I know you don't ever measure gravity.

Funny you mention this. The other day I was in the beer bunker and I accidentally knocked over my hydrometer and it fell behind one of my draft fridges. I retrieved it and examined it (it didn't break) and thought, I should take OG and FG on my next batch! With the mill adjustment I made and the fact that I haven't checked gravity in years (a decade or more?), I should do that. So I'll do a 60m mash this weekend on a beer I plan to brew and I'll take gravity readings. I could make a similar beer after that and do a 30m mash and see what happens.

[neddles]

When the beer is finished make sure you taste it to see if you notice any differences before you measure the FG. Knowing the FG could easily cloud your tasting session. Hopefully I am making sense.

Edited by neddles, 04 October 2017 - 08:35 AM.

[Big Nake]

When the beer is finished make sure you taste it to see if you notice any differences before you measure the FG. Knowing the FG could easily cloud your tasting session. Hopefully I am making any sense.

You mean on the 30m mash batch?

[neddles]

You mean on the 30m mash batch?

Yes. Preconceived notions about FG driving sweetness or vise versa might get in the way of an honest tasting. It would for me anyways.

[denny]

I've posted this many times, but this is some of the best beer foam info I've come across.  May or may not apply to you, Ken.....http://byo.com/stori...foam-techniques

[HVB]

Ken, I just poured a half litter of my golden lager and the head was very similar to what you posted.

[Big Nake]

Ken, I just poured a half litter of my golden lager and the head was very similar to what you posted.

Pics man. Pics.

[HVB]

Pics man. Pics.

I will try and get a better picture over the weekend but you can see similarities between the two.  It was very "creamy" like with tight tiny bubbles.

 

[Big Nake]

Oh yeah, yum. For the 30m boil to have this upside is great. Some of these beers have foam like whipped cream. No clue if it's really the shorter boil... could be a combination but I like it.

[HVB]

Oh yeah, yum. For the 30m boil to have this upside is great. Some of these beers have foam like whipped cream. No clue if it's really the shorter boil... could be a combination but I like it.

Agree, not sure the science behind it but I am okay with it for sure!

[matt6150]

So the real question, is there any reason to do a 60 min boil?

[HVB]

So the real question, is there any reason to do a 60 min boil?

For me I see no reason.  As I have said before, I have not done something over 30 minutes since last 2015 and I have no desire to go back to a longer boil.

[Big Nake]

So the real question, is there any reason to do a 60 min boil?

I never really had a lot of recipes with hop additions between "60" and "30" (say, a 45-minute addition). It seems like you could easily get around that if necessary. For me, the only hurdle was making sure that the 30m addition of hops (bittering addition) got me the same IBUs as the traditional 60m I would have used. With the calculators, that's easy. I can tell you for sure that pilsner malt doesn't mind the 30m boil (DMS or what have you) and all I have seen in my 30m batches has been all upside... time savings being one.

[matt6150]

How about other "reasons" that may be in a book or something? Like Ken mentioned the DMS thing. Things that were thought to be true about needing to boil for 60 min but really dont. My memory is crap but wasn't there something about starches from the mash that required to be boiled that long? I could be way off here. I guess I am wondering where the 60 min number came from and the reasons, besides for bittering.

[denny]

How about other "reasons" that may be in a book or something? Like Ken mentioned the DMS thing. Things that were thought to be true about needing to boil for 60 min but really dont. My memory is crap but wasn't there something about starches from the mash that required to be boiled that long? I could be way off here. I guess I am wondering where the 60 min number came from and the reasons, besides for bittering.

 

If you have starches from the mash in your kettle, you screwed up your mash. 

[Big Nake]

How about other "reasons" that may be in a book or something? Like Ken mentioned the DMS thing. Things that were thought to be true about needing to boil for 60 min but really dont. My memory is crap but wasn't there something about starches from the mash that required to be boiled that long? I could be way off here. I guess I am wondering where the 60 min number came from and the reasons, besides for bittering.

My only take on this is that it has not come up in any of the beers I have made so far and the variety has been pretty good... helles, pilsner, festbier, Vienna, dunkel, American premium, citra & Amarillo pale ale, hopped up amber ale, etc. There has not been one flaw in any of these beers (not bragging, simply passing on my experience) and if anything my beers seem better, clarity has been excellent and this head formation thing is outrageous.

[matt6150]

If you have starches from the mash in your kettle, you screwed up your mash. 

Sugars, starches my bad.

[matt6150]

My only take on this is that it has not come up in any of the beers I have made so far and the variety has been pretty good... helles, pilsner, festbier, Vienna, dunkel, American premium, citra & Amarillo pale ale, hopped up amber ale, etc. There has not been one flaw in any of these beers (not bragging, simply passing on my experience) and if anything my beers seem better, clarity has been excellent and this head formation thing is outrageous.

Yeah same here. I'm just trying to confirm my stance.

[denny]

Yeah same here. I'm just trying to confirm my stance.

 

Reducing DMS precursors has been related to boil vigor more than boil time.  A vigorous short boil will do as much, if not more, to reduce them.