179 replies to this topic

[HVB]

me too.  did the brewtan last time leave behind some kind of residue in my tun that is now reacting with this batch???

 

I've never been too crazy about cleaning my MT.  I just dump the grain and immediately rinse it out with hot water.  that's it.

I have a ss MLT but my cleaning method is no different than yours.

 

Denny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Get in here!!!!!!!!!!!

[positiveContact]

Damn, what the hell. I have never seen brewtan do anything color-wise to my water. The foam/break gets a little orangy but that's it. FTR, I filter my water the day before I brew and the 5 gallons of strike water are in my 5-6 gallon aluminum pot. I add my acid (3-4 mls), CaCl, gypsum and ¼ tsp brewtan to the water, heat and eventually pour into my MT where milled grains are waiting. Never saw anything green. And to be clear... the strike water was turning green in the kettle, right? Before it got to the MT? That tells you that it's not the MT. Do I have that right?

 

it was a little green in the kettle I think.  but it REALLY turned green when it hit the mash tun.  it seems like the mash tun is accelerating the process.

 

i'm looking at my sparge water right now and it has a very slight off color but nothing crazy.  i wouldn't normally think twice about it.

i'm going to step out for a bit while my mash is going on but i'll be back in about an hour or so.

[dmtaylor]

Usually green indicates chemical reaction in presence of copper.  (Think Statue of Liberty, which originally should have been a reddish-gold beacon that was quickly turned green due to air and rain.)  However I suppose certain forms of iron might do the same thing.  Most iron compounds are red, orange, black, but if memory serves some might turn green.  Interesting.

[dmtaylor]

Forgive me for thinking out loud..... I also wonder if this might actually be blue-black magnetite or other iron compound which when combined with the redness of the wort blends to make an icky greenish color.

 

In any case, I'll bet somebody a hypothetical 6-pack that any greenness settles out either in the mash or in the fermenter, and leaves no flavor or color at all in the final beer.  So...

 

Personally I wouldn't worry.

[HVB]

Forgive me for thinking out loud..... I also wonder if this might actually be blue-black magnetite or other iron compound which when combined with the redness of the wort blends to make an icky greenish color.

 

In any case, I'll bet somebody a hypothetical 6-pack that any greenness settles out either in the mash or in the fermenter, and leaves no flavor or color at all in the final beer.  So...

 

Personally I wouldn't worry.

I thought the color started before he added the grain.

[dmtaylor]

If true then it's got to be from pumps, pipes, tanks, kettles, etc.

[positiveContact]

If true then it's got to be from pumps, pipes, tanks, kettles, etc.

 

no pumps or pipes.  only thing the water touched was the plumbing in my house, an RV hose I've been using for years, and my SS kettles and mash tun (cooler).

 

just a note about this RV hose b/c I see it might raise a red flag.  it's permanently hooked up to my utility sink so water is being run through it regularly.  before filling my my kettle with cold water I used it to clean stuff which means a bunch of hot water ran through it.  prior to filling up the kettle I also run cold water through until it actually feels cold (flushing out hot water).

Edited by Evil_Morty, 04 November 2016 - 09:00 AM.

[positiveContact]

so my sparge water def has a greenish color to it but not as dark as what I was seeing in the MT prior to adding the grain.  some of that could just be that I'm looking through less water at a silver surface instead of more water at a white surface.

[neddles]

This is not your first time using Brewtan, right?

Edited by neddles, 04 November 2016 - 08:59 AM.

[positiveContact]

This is not your first time using Brewtan, right?

 

second time.  first time was a lightish colored IPA.  color looks very normal on that finished beer.  i don't remember when I added the brewtan.  it could have been right before I put the grain in so I could have missed this reaction.

sparge water is kind of green/yellow.  this is 2 gallons in a 5 gallon kettle so not super deep.  maybe 4-5" (tho).

 

Edited by Evil_Morty, 04 November 2016 - 09:07 AM.

[dmtaylor]

I meant to say "plumbing".  What is your water source?  Well?  City?  Do you have any reports on copper and iron content?  Maybe your municipal water treatment plant is actively flushing out all the main lines?  This happens often in the spring and fall.  And where are we right now... November 4...

[Big Nake]

It's weird because this is the second time using brewtan (and I assume there was no issue on batch #1) and everything else has been in place for a long time. That would make one conclude that it was some new variable. Something in the water, something new that was used to clean something, maybe a piece of plumbing that was damaged and now some new metal has been exposed, etc. I don't see how else this could happen if you used brewtan on a pale(ish) beer the last time. The color of the green water you posted earlier would certainly have had an impact on a pale-colored IPA... I would think. Just because this batch is a porter doesn't make it any more comforting because you would want to know WHY it's happening.

[denny]

I got nothing.  I think Dave might be on the right track, though.

 

BTW, I think Joe in is Japan at the moment, so it may take a while for him to respond.

Edited by denny, 04 November 2016 - 09:26 AM.

[positiveContact]

I meant to say "plumbing".  What is your water source?  Well?  City?  Do you have any reports on copper and iron content?  Maybe your municipal water treatment plant is actively flushing out all the main lines?  This happens often in the spring and fall.  And where are we right now... November 4...

 

city water.  they could be doing something.  the water looks clear before treatment.  I have some old reports but they are old now.  I think the water is pretty consistent discounting stuff like flushing the lines like you said.

[positiveContact]

I got nothing.  I think Dave might be on the right track, though.

 

BTW, I think Joe in is Japan at the moment, so it may take a while for him to respond.

 

so what will happen to my beer if there is increased iron or copper content?

[dmtaylor]

As I said before, I think the Brewtan might be finding the extra metal ions (fortunately!) and knocking them right out of solution, such that the final beer flavor will be good as ever, and perhaps even better than ever.  I'm a little surprised to hear myself say this, too, after I've pooed on Brewtan previously, but if it really does what "they" say that it does, then it is certainly helping in this case.  Bottom line is that any green color in your mash or sparge is actually a good thing because it means the Brewtan has found "bad stuff" and is taking it out of solution instead of leaving it in the beer.  Without the Brewtan, you might have experienced ugly metallic flavors in the finished beer, which should now be able to be settled out and removed from the finished beer.

[dmtaylor]

I should add that I once experienced a green cider.  Research at the time indicated that on rare occasions this will happen with cider where the copper content in the orchard soil is very high or where the apples were treated with copper as a disinfectant, which is very common in the orchard industry.  Ultimately the green stuff all settled out and left me with a very tasty cider indeed!  No metallic flavors.  This practical experience is likely relevant and contributed to all that I've already said above.  From what I recall, this is rarely experienced but ultimately was something not to be concerned about either since it settles out.

[positiveContact]

blessing in disguise I guess.  I wish I hadn't have dumped my initial strike/sparge water  :-/

 

hopefully my starter beer won't have enough stuff in it to do much harm.

Edited by Evil_Morty, 04 November 2016 - 10:01 AM.

[neddles]

I should add that I once experienced a green cider.  Research at the time indicated that on rare occasions this will happen with cider where the copper content in the orchard soil is very high or where the apples were treated with copper as a disinfectant, which is very common in the orchard industry.  Ultimately the green stuff all settled out and left me with a very tasty cider indeed!  No metallic flavors.  This practical experience is likely relevant and contributed to all that I've already said above.  From what I recall, this is rarely experienced but ultimately was something not to be concerned about either since it settles out.

Copper sulfate is sprayed on apples as an organic fungicide.

Edited by neddles, 04 November 2016 - 10:08 AM.

[Big Nake]

It goes back to something I mentioned in the other brewtan thread... some people with more metallic content in their water may have a more positive experience with brewtan while others may not think that brewtan is doing anything at all... because maybe it's not. My iron and copper numbers from my latest Wards Labs report show <1ppm for both. I'm not sure how much is too much and I'm not suggesting the water in THIS case is high in metals because why did batch #1 with brewtan come out okay with no green color?