517 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

I had a batch of my Bordertown Dark Lager carbing since Sunday and it finished up last night. It looked great as it was going into the keg and smelled awesome so I decided to sneak a sample with a cobra tap last night around 9pm. The gel worked its magic and the beer was clear. The aroma was just right. I took a sip and noticed something similar to the first time I used brewtan almost a year ago... the beer has that unbelievable soft, smooth, silky character. I can't say that I've noticed this on EVERY beer that I've made with brewtan so either it's something else, my tastebuds, my imagination or whatever. I ended up having 2 glasses of it and the beer is just dynamite all the way around.

[denny]

Good to hear, Ken! We're recording the Brewtan results episode today. Do you mind if I read your post?

[Big Nake]

denny, on 05 Apr 2017 - 3:11 PM, said:

Good to hear, Ken! We're recording the Brewtan results episode today. Do you mind if I read your post?

You can read any of my stuff... no worries. To be clear and to make sure that I don't look like a nut on your show... I want to stress that I have no idea what brewtan is doing or not doing. This soft, silky, smooth character is something that I have noticed in *SOME* of my brewtan beers but not all of them. But... I don't remember ever experiencing this character before I used brewtan. I don't know what that says but that's all I got. I'm looking forward to hearing your findings in the brewtan study and I'm completely willing to accept that it's not doing anything or that it's truly a miracle. Please post a link to the show when you have it & thanks.

[denny]

Will do.  Show should be out next Wed.  You know I'll post a link!

[HVB]

4 month old beers. One gas Brewtan one does not.

My write up from FB:
Brewtan B 4 months latter. Huge clarity difference and more importantly a huge difference in aroma and taste. The Brewtan version still has a good amount of aroma and has a nice crisp taste where the non-brewtan version has zero aroma and a flat taste and also showing some signs of oxidation. The cantillon logo is on the back of the tasters to get and idea on the clarity.

Edited by drez77, 16 April 2017 - 03:55 AM.

[Big Nake]

Very interesting on the clarity. The taste thing is probably the most important but clarity always interests me and my brewtan beers have had good clarity for sure. That's a good test.

[Brauer]

Nice observation. It's too bad the beer had a fault that could be expected to affect flavor stability, but it is interesting to see that Brewtan B can act as a clarifying agent. That could explain why some brewers see an effect and others do not.

I have to wonder what went wrong to make the beer so hazy? If you solved the problem that caused the haze, would the difference go away?

Do you feel it is appropriate to compare beers when one has an obvious fault? In experimental science, we would normally disregard an experimental result if our control sample failed to perform to expected standards.

[HVB]

Brauer, on 16 Apr 2017 - 1:37 PM, said:

Nice observation. It's too bad the beer had a fault that could be expected to affect flavor stability, but it is interesting to see that Brewtan B can act as a clarifying agent. That could explain why some brewers see an effect and others do not.

I have to wonder what went wrong to make the beer so hazy? If you solved the problem that caused the haze, would the difference go away?

Do you feel it is appropriate to compare beers when one has an obvious fault? In experimental science, we would normally disregard an experimental result if our control sample failed to perform to expected standards.

I do not follow. There was no fault at all in the beer to make it hazy.  It was a NE style beer with hopping done early in the fermentation that leads to haze.  

 

Here are the same beers shortly after they were tapped.  Again, no fault unless you do not like NE style beers and if that is the case it has nothing to do with this experiment.

 

[Brauer]

They look different to me. Which is the Brewtan beer, the clear one?

[HVB]

Brauer, on 16 Apr 2017 - 3:23 PM, said:

They look different to me. Which is the Brewtan beer, the clear one?

Yes, the clear one is Brewtan. I have to check the notes but I believe no kettle findings were added either.

[Brauer]

drez77, on 16 Apr 2017 - 3:42 PM, said:

Yes, the clear one is Brewtan. I have to check the notes but I believe no kettle findings were added either.

So, the potential improvement in shelf stabilty in the clear beer could be due to its clarity, as haze is believed to lead to premature aging. The cloudiness might be the cause of the degradation of that beer, so I'd call it a fault, in this case, desired or not.

Had the process been altered in a way that prevented the permanent haze, as seen in the Brewtan beer, the premature aging might have been prevented. One could conclude that the Brewtan B is essentially taking the place of fining.

[HVB]

Improved clarity is one of the things Brewtan is reported to do so my results prove that it does improve clarity along with other impacts. Maybe my experiment is not what a lab would do but it proved to me the impacts Brewtan has on a beer over time. I have no worries about my process.

[HVB]

I was reading on another  brewing forum and some comments were made about Brewtan added to the boil making the beer permanently hazy.  A few on there said they have had it happen to them.  Has anyone noticed this?  I have three beers on tap currently that have more haze in them than I would expect especially after Biofine and one got gel on top of the Biofine and it is still hazy.  One is a Lager and one is a Patersbier and I had expected both to come out pretty clear.  I am not saying it was the Brewtan but just trying to see if anyone else has seen what the others were mentioning.

[Big Nake]

drez77, on 08 Aug 2017 - 2:41 PM, said:

I was reading on another  brewing forum and some comments were made about Brewtan added to the boil making the beer permanently hazy.  A few on there said they have had it happen to them.  Has anyone noticed this?  I have three beers on tap currently that have more haze in them than I would expect especially after Biofine and one got gel on top of the Biofine and it is still hazy.  One is a Lager and one is a Patersbier and I had expected both to come out pretty clear.  I am not saying it was the Brewtan but just trying to see if anyone else has seen what the others were mentioning.

That's interesting. IME, if anything the beers have been clearer. I did have that experience with the WilliamsWarn clarifier that didn't seem to want to work for me but otherwise the brewtan beers have come out very clear and one of its benefits is supposed to be clearer beer.

All of that said, I was brewing over the weekend and went to add my BTB to the strike water and I thought to myself, Is this stuff even doing anything? Should I make a few beers without it just to see if I notice anything? I have been using it nonstop since I started which is probably over a year now, right? Once I started using it, I didn't make ONE BEER without it. My beers have been good but have they been BETTER? No idea.

[HVB]

ER Pemberton, on 08 Aug 2017 - 3:05 PM, said:

That's interesting. IME, if anything the beers have been clearer. I did have that experience with the WilliamsWarn clarifier that didn't seem to want to work for me but otherwise the brewtan beers have come out very clear and one of its benefits is supposed to be clearer beer.

All of that said, I was brewing over the weekend and went to add my BTB to the strike water and I thought to myself, Is this stuff even doing anything? Should I make a few beers without it just to see if I notice anything? I have been using it nonstop since I started which is probably over a year now, right? Once I started using it, I didn't make ONE BEER without it. My beers have been good but have they been BETTER? No idea.

Up until these last few I have had all very clear beer and my side by side showed to me that Brewtan was making the beer clearer.  In 2 of the 3 I used a new sakc of Pils so that may have something to do with my issues.

[Big Nake]

drez77, on 08 Aug 2017 - 3:27 PM, said:

Up until these last few I have had all very clear beer and my side by side showed to me that Brewtan was making the beer clearer.  In 2 of the 3 I used a new sakc of Pils so that may have something to do with my issues.

Yeah, I was going to ask if you had used any new ingredients, new processes, new clarifiers, changed something with your mill, etc. I seem to have clarity that ranges from "Mmm, that's pretty clear" to "Ho Lee Snot... look at that fecking beer! It looks filtered!" so I'm relatively happy with clarity. I still see filtered commercial beer and realize that some of my beers are way off the mark but maybe my need for super-clarity has faded a little.

[positiveContact]

my half wheat pale ale and lots of hops made with brewtan is crystal clear.

[HVB]

Evil_Morty, on 08 Aug 2017 - 4:33 PM, said:

my half wheat pale ale and lots of hops made with brewtan is crystal clear.

Mine is hazy as the day is long.  That is with brewtan and Biofone.  That one could be hazy because of the pound of corn starch I added to the mash but on another beer I did that too it came out clear.

[neddles]

In a word, yes. Was thinking of reviving this thread for this very reason. My lagers and low hopped styles have been brilliant and crystal clear with brewtan, probably more than they were before brewtan. But I cannot seen to get my hoppy beers (late and whirlpool) to clarify prior to adding the dry hop. The consisent combination appears to be whirlpool hops and brewtan B. With that combination Biofine has been ineffective at clearing the beers. Have not tried gelatin yet.

I have not researched this at all nor did I see any threads on another forumsince I haven't been on any other forums recently. Do you have a link to the thread?

[denny]

Whirlpool hops add a lot of polyphenols to your beer.  Those can cause haze and I don't know how effective Brewtan would be at polyphenol/protein haze post boil.