517 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

As far as I know I'm the only one on here who has done side by side batches of brewtan and non brewtan recipes and tasted them blindly against one another.

One hoppy german pils was indistinguishable between the two when tasted blindly. On a light lager I had a preference for the non-brewtan beer. For the way I brew it did not improve 2 batches and adds another step to my brewday and brewday prep. I see no reason to continue using it.

I would go back to what I said about how brewtan may have the capacity to do more for some than for others. It's possible that your water, process, equipment, etc. is such that there wasn't much there for brewtan to improve on and so you saw no improvement. There was something in my process (I think...) that was creating a bit of a harsh finish that brewtan improved for me. Now that every beer that I make and drink is a brewtan beer, the wow factor is not as strong but I have to say... that first helles I made with brewtan was SO much smoother, softer, silkier than prior batches.

[Steve Urquell]

any more details about what you liked and didn't like about those particular batches?  did you triangle test them to make sure you could consistently ID the odd batch out?

I poured 2 identical 6oz sample glasses and di the old shell game with them at least 10x in each session with crackers between sips to clean my palate. On the german pils I did it several times over a month to see if age changed. No difference notable by me. On the light lager I tried it a couple times. The non BT batch had a richer malt aroma and was noticeable by smell more than by taste. I think tasting was similar with me preferring it more times than the BT batch but not 100%. I could tell the non BT batch by aroma 100% of the time.

I don't smoke and have a pretty good palate and an excellent nose. Not a truly scientific test but enough to tell me that it doesn't improve my beer to my palate. I will say that the light lager had BT added at the same time as finings which is not the right time to add it. This resulted in the wort staying hazy like cider and thru my overnight chill which always results in crystal clear wort the next day when I rack and pitch. The finished beer did not drop clear after cold crashing and needed gel to clear up.

That above issue pretty much had me ready to not use it again and the tasting results confirmed it. Maybe my drauflassen technique has something to do with it not having a positive affect on my beer.

[3rd party JKor]

Ok, 17 pages. Now i should probably ask what the hell is brewtan b?

[Big Nake]

Ok, 17 pages. Now i should probably ask what the hell is brewtan b?

Read the thread newbie!

It's a lot to explain but there was a group of brewers who were discussing a way to brew with low-or-less O2 getting into the beer from the beginning of the process. There were A LOT of things that needed to be done and there was some skepticism too. Denny mentioned something that he had heard about called "brewtan b" which is a tannic acid product which has various properties and to be honest... how brewtan b came into the picture during the low-oxygen conversation is a mystery to me because I'm not sure that brewtan purges/metabolizes O2 but it does seem to have an impact on the beer overall. If you've read any of this, you'll know that some people notice ZERO impact when using brewtan while others seem to notice something. I still say that a brewer's process, equipment and water will determine whether brewtan will have some impact or not. My beers seem to come out much smoother, cleaner, clearer, softer and silkier than before. As a brewer who makes a good amount of German and German-inspired beers, this is a good thing. Experiments and side-by-side tastings are underway to determine if tasters can tell the difference.

[positiveContact]

Ok, 17 pages. Now i should probably ask what the hell is brewtan b?

 

tannic acid has long dangley arms that grab onto lots of things.  these things are precursors to oxidation that we don't like.

[neddles]

This stuff is definitly doing a few things to my beers that I have noticed. First of all it, and this is less objective, there is a deeper more defined malt character to all my beers. Secondly, chill haze is slim to none since I started using it.

Lastly the beer remains obsurdly fresh. Chirstmas Eve, in a rush to get out of the house, I quickly filled several growlers of my 100% Barke Pils Helles and took them to my inlaws. No CO2 flush, just filled capped and done. They sat out on the coutertop all afternoon and evening and we drank them all except for one which came home and made its way home and to the back of my fridge where it was forgotten. Fast forward 3 weeks I find it in the fridge and prepare to dump it. (Now, maybe its different at your place but beer that sits in a growler that long is always noticably off wether I filled it or it came from a brewery.) Just to remind myself of these off flavors I poured a small sample to see how bad it was. It was completely fine. Like absolutely. Could not belive it. Went and poured a fresh sample from the keg. Compared the two and I could not tell the difference. Wife could not either. The beer was brewed in early October IIRC.

[Steve Urquell]

My brewing buddy said the only difference he noticed was his BT beers made him fart more lol.

[Big Nake]

This stuff is definitly doing a few things to my beers that I have noticed. First of all it, and this is less objective, there is a deeper more defined malt character to all my beers. Secondly, chill haze is slim to none since I started using it.

Lastly the beer remains obsurdly fresh. Chirstmas Eve, in a rush to get out of the house, I quickly filled several growlers of my 100% Barke Pils Helles and took them to my inlaws. No CO2 flush, just filled capped and done. They sat out on the coutertop all afternoon and evening and we drank them all except for one which came home and made its way home and to the back of my fridge where it was forgotten. Fast forward 3 weeks I find it in the fridge and prepare to dump it. (Now, maybe its different at your place but beer that sits in a growler that long is always noticably off wether I filled it or it came from a brewery.) Just to remind myself of these off flavors I poured a small sample to see how bad it was. It was completely fine. Like absolutely. Could not belive it. Went and poured a fresh sample from the keg. Compared the two and I could not tell the difference. Wife could not either. The beer was brewed in early October IIRC.

It's interesting to read thru this now that more of us are using it and there is more data/evidence. I know some of us think it's doing something, some of us are not sure and some of us are convinced it's not doing anything. The very first beer I made with it seemed like the most-impacted beer... a helles and a recipe that I make a lot. That beer seemed so unbelievably smooth (like almost too smooth) but there was definitely a difference and I had family over and many people mentioned how good it was and the keg did not last long. Since then, my beers have all been very good. Head formation and stability has been good. I'm getting a really nice, thick, soft & fluffy head which may not be the BT. My beers are clearer than ever which is supposed to be a function of BT. The month-old growler in the fridge is a great test and something that we won't all experience but I remember a story about Joe F. entering a 10-month-old cream ale into a comp and winning so the idea that BT improves shelf-life appears to be accurate. I have no idea how many batches I've made with it now but my experience so far has been positive.

[positiveContact]

no complaints yet although really I didn't have anything to complain about before either.  my green strike water doesn't seem to carry over into the finished product at all.

[denny]

We hope to have results on our Brewtan experiment in the next few weeks.

 

IIRC, Joe's cream ale was years old.

This stuff is definitly doing a few things to my beers that I have noticed. First of all it, and this is less objective, there is a deeper more defined malt character to all my beers. Secondly, chill haze is slim to none since I started using it.

Lastly the beer remains obsurdly fresh. Chirstmas Eve, in a rush to get out of the house, I quickly filled several growlers of my 100% Barke Pils Helles and took them to my inlaws. No CO2 flush, just filled capped and done. They sat out on the coutertop all afternoon and evening and we drank them all except for one which came home and made its way home and to the back of my fridge where it was forgotten. Fast forward 3 weeks I find it in the fridge and prepare to dump it. (Now, maybe its different at your place but beer that sits in a growler that long is always noticably off wether I filled it or it came from a brewery.) Just to remind myself of these off flavors I poured a small sample to see how bad it was. It was completely fine. Like absolutely. Could not belive it. Went and poured a fresh sample from the keg. Compared the two and I could not tell the difference. Wife could not either. The beer was brewed in early October IIRC.

 

very cool!

[Brauer]

This stuff is definitly doing a few things to my beers that I have noticed. First of all it, and this is less objective, there is a deeper more defined malt character to all my beers. Secondly, chill haze is slim to none since I started using it.

Lastly the beer remains obsurdly fresh. Chirstmas Eve, in a rush to get out of the house, I quickly filled several growlers of my 100% Barke Pils Helles and took them to my inlaws. No CO2 flush, just filled capped and done. They sat out on the coutertop all afternoon and evening and we drank them all except for one which came home and made its way home and to the back of my fridge where it was forgotten. Fast forward 3 weeks I find it in the fridge and prepare to dump it. (Now, maybe its different at your place but beer that sits in a growler that long is always noticably off wether I filled it or it came from a brewery.) Just to remind myself of these off flavors I poured a small sample to see how bad it was. It was completely fine. Like absolutely. Could not belive it. Went and poured a fresh sample from the keg. Compared the two and I could not tell the difference. Wife could not either. The beer was brewed in early October IIRC.

Allow me, not to discount this anecdote, but to keep it in context with my own experience with non-BT beers. I've scored well with bottles filled off the tap a month or more after filling them. I was really surprised how flawless one lager was when I found a bottle in the back of my fridge 6 months after it was filled. Unfortunately, it was no longer on tap for direct comparison. It was a dark lager, though, and those may have their own resistance to oxidation.

[HVB]

As I posted in the picture thread, I feel for my beers it is really doing something good. I know my brewtan/non-brewtan side by side showed a huge difference.

[SchwanzBrewer]

You know I bought the shit to distribute and I never got to use it. I sent out all the samples and my FIL took it out and left the bin out of the freezer so it went bad. I found it like 2 weeks later been sitting out in the heat. Sucks.

[positiveContact]

You know I bought the shit to distribute and I never got to use it. I sent out all the samples and my FIL took it out and left the bin out of the freezer so it went bad. I found it like 2 weeks later been sitting out in the heat. Sucks.

 

I'm supposed to keep brewtan in the freezer?  I just vacuum sealed it and put it in the closet.

[Big Nake]

Never heard it had to be kept cold.

[neddles]

Allow me, not to discount this anecdote, but to keep it in context with my own experience with non-BT beers. I've scored well with bottles filled off the tap a month or more after filling them. I was really surprised how flawless one lager was when I found a bottle in the back of my fridge 6 months after it was filled. Unfortunately, it was no longer on tap for direct comparison. It was a dark lager, though, and those may have their own resistance to oxidation.

Yeah maybe my non brewtan beers have something different with them, I dont know. I just know I have had beer from old growlers (again, both mine and filled at breweries with no CO2 flush or bottling gun) and they always show abuse/age. In a Helles haphazardly put into a growler and left for three weeks I thought for sure it would be off a litle somehow. Heck I can taste a difference in my hoppy ales as soon as I get to my destination with the growler an hour later.

Edited by neddles, 28 January 2017 - 04:11 PM.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I'm supposed to keep brewtan in the freezer?  I just vacuum sealed it and put it in the closet.

 

I think that's what it said on the package.

Says store in an airtight container in a cool environment. Anyway, it's fecked.

[Brauer]

Yeah maybe my non brewtan beers have something different with them, I dont know. I just know I have had beer from old growlers (again, both mine and filled at breweries with no CO2 flush or bottling gun) and they always show abuse/age. In a Helles haphazardly put into a growler and left for three weeks I thought for sure it would be off a litle somehow. Heck I can taste a difference in my hoppy ales as soon as I get to my destination with the growler an hour later.

I've had similar issues with brewery growlers, though more so the day after they have been opened. The immediate changes I have often blamed on the reduced carbonation. But I wanted to point out some different experiences I've had with my own beer. It's just an example of how we might arrive at different conclusions based on anecdotal evidence, which the human mind is wired to give more weight that it is due, especially when there is expectancy bias.

[positiveContact]

I think that's what it said on the package.

Says store in an airtight container in a cool environment. Anyway, it's fecked.

 

i found it - 5-25C.  I think I've kept it there.  maybe I should put it in my basement?

[Brauer]

5-25°C implies that it shouldn't be frozen. Instead it can be stored anywhere from fridge temperature to 77°F and be good for 5 years, if kept dry.