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Hoppy German Pils


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#21 Steve Urquell

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 02:37 PM

I've had a few commercial beers that were plenty hoppy and crystal clear. I think a couple of NBs were like that with no sediment in the bottle. I think SN does as well. On the oxidation. I've had a few that went south towards the end of the keg. A Munich Dunkel comes to mind. I think the ones I had go oxidized had been racked to secondary and gelled. I need to implement some strategies to decrease O2. I think on the ones I gel, I will do it in the keg. I always rack to an open topped keg but I think I'll run a little CO2 in there from now on, see if my older beers don't go all the way to the bottom w/o turning.

#22 neddles

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 02:52 PM

I've had a few commercial beers that were plenty hoppy and crystal clear. I think a couple of NBs were like that with no sediment in the bottle. I think SN does as well.

I have too, but I don't know how they go about doing it. I will also say though that the freshest and hoppiest of them typically have the haze IME. Seems like whenever I have a SN beer, be it Pale/Torpedo/Celebration there is always a touch of haze. I thought I remembered Basser saying they do not filter. I know Jamil says they do not filter or fine anything they make at Heretic. Never had one of their beers though.

 

If I had a separate conditioning freezer I would like to try holding these beers at 28F or so for several days before putting them on the tap.



#23 Big Nake

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 03:25 PM

If I had a separate conditioning freezer I would like to try holding these beers at 28F or so for several days before putting them on the tap.

Would be interesting. I have to say that I haven't given a lot of thought to oxidation but that doesn't mean I shouldn't. I rack from primary to secondary without purging the secondary and to an open keg without purging except for the latest batches. I don't like the idea of a beer with a shelf life in my lineup of beers because I never know how much of my beer is going to get put away in a short time. My wife likes these late-hopped beers more than I do but on any given day she may not drink or she may have prosecco or wine and that freshly-hopped beer will go south in the meantime. But I think I can manage it with some forethought. Excellent discussion gentlemen... sorry again to Chils for completely hijacking his thread.

#24 Steve Urquell

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 03:35 PM

If I had a separate conditioning freezer I would like to try holding these beers at 28F or so for several days before putting them on the tap.

Ya know, I did that to my IPL. First ferment in my 8gal Vittles Vault. It's short and fat and sits against my cold plate. That's why it froze the back 1.5 gals of beer. Typically the clear beer goes in the keg and the hazy 1.5gal in the bottom goes in the bottles. B/c this one froze, I had to suck up crud to get 5gals. I recall the first 3.5gals or so being very clear. I'll insulate the back of this batch and put my temp probe near the back. Get it close to freezing and see how clear it ends up being. ETA: Ken this is no hijack. Ive been wondering how I could clear this beer and still dry hop it. Good discussion.

Edited by chils, 01 February 2015 - 03:37 PM.


#25 HVB

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 06:54 AM

Did you mention what yeast?  This looks interesting to me.  I do have most of the grain minus the floor malted Bo Pils malt and I am missing Spalt.  I wonder how it would be with straight pils and some hallertau.



#26 Steve Urquell

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 05:32 PM

Did you mention what yeast?  This looks interesting to me.  I do have most of the grain minus the floor malted Bo Pils malt and I am missing Spalt.  I wonder how it would be with straight pils and some hallertau.

I had some harvested W34/70. You won't go wrong with W34/70, WLP830, Wy 2124, or 2278. The grain bill is my standard German Pils recipe. The hop bill is new so I don't have any tasting notes to say whether it's a winner or loser. I think most nobles would be just fine, Hallertau would be good. If I had to try and make up for the floor malt, I'd probably up the Vienna to 2lbs and add a lb of German Munich. It won't have the honey character that floor malt adds though. Did I mention how much I like that stuff? :deadhorse: I had last minute thoughts about adding ~1/2lb of Caravienne to it on brewday, got lazy and doughed in as is. I had worries that the grain bill didn't have enough character to carry all the hops. We will see.

#27 Steve Urquell

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 07:04 PM

This beer is just carbed and I've pulled a couple of pints. Damned good, resiny and somehow the malt character and body have been enhanced by the increased hop load over the base recipe. If you haven't tried anything like this--heavily noble hopped lager--you really should. My wood is sprung.



#28 Big Nake

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 07:21 PM

This beer is just carbed and I've pulled a couple of pints. Damned good, resiny and somehow the malt character and body have been enhanced by the increased hop load over the base recipe. If you haven't tried anything like this--heavily noble hopped lager--you really should. My wood is sprung.

LOL. Boing! Sounds like a nice beer and I have a few "gold lagers" where 5-6 ounces of hops were used in 5 gallons so looking forward to them. Cheers.

#29 Steve Urquell

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 07:27 PM

LOL. Boing! Sounds like a nice beer and I have a few "gold lagers" where 5-6 ounces of hops were used in 5 gallons so looking forward to them. Cheers.

Those should be sho nuff hoppy. My batch is 7 gallons with a similar hop load. I had an oh crap moment when I realized that this beer as a regular pils might have needed some more malt body to stay balanced. Not sure how the hops bumped up the body and sweetness but they did.

#30 neddles

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 07:52 PM

Those should be sho nuff hoppy. My batch is 7 gallons with a similar hop load. I had an oh crap moment when I realized that this beer as a regular pils might have needed some more malt body to stay balanced. Not sure how the hops bumped up the body and sweetness but they did.

This sounds nice. I would swear I get some body from beers where a lot of hops are used. And, depending on hop variety there are definitely some that add their own sweetness IME.



#31 Steve Urquell

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 04:35 AM

This sounds nice. I would swear I get some body from beers where a lot of hops are used. And, depending on hop variety there are definitely some that add their own sweetness IME.

I agree, just haven't seen just how much they can change the malt character. Having had this beer as a regular German pils and hopped up like this is an eye opener. Give me a couple weeks to allow this one to get in the zone and I'll send you a few beers. It's a little raw and will be really good soon.

#32 neddles

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 04:54 AM

Great, much appreciated. I can be very patient for free beer. 



#33 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 10:44 AM

Awesome! This style is on the to do list. I bought some german hops - forget the variety that sounded like they'd make a good late addition for this style. Might have been Perle or Opal, I dunno.


Edited by SchwanzBrewer, 11 March 2015 - 10:46 AM.


#34 neddles

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 06:09 PM

Hey everyone, Chils sent me some beer! This beer was one of them. First off, many thanks to Chils for sending these to me. Chils makes beers that are outside of what I usually make and this has been a great opportunity to taste not only his quality brewing but the various ingredients/methods that went into it. I had this one a couple nights ago. I'll say this… if anyone here is having clarity issues talk to Ken and talk to Chils. This beer is exceptionally clear. In fact all the beers he sent me were. The pics were late and in low light so they really don't do the beer justice. Sorry chils. And, as usual, the beer was lighter in color than the pictures suggest.  

 

This beer, while exceptionally hoppy still has nice light malty character to it that easily shines through. Clearly the water is handled appropriately because the beer, while light in color, is pleasantly smooth without a hint of astringency or husky character. Fermentation is extremely clean, lager-like. Its (mostly) about the hops here and I really like the hop character in this one. Its very big and a bit like Mittelfruh but has this pleasant deep herbal/ almost woodsy flavor that, while completely unfamiliar to me, I like a lot. It grabbed my attention immediately. Bittering was very firm but complementary and clean. The finish is dry. It should be obvious that I thought this beer was fantastic. Thank you very much. Did you end up dry hopping this as planned chils? Im going to guess, yes.

Posted ImagePosted Image


Edited by nettles, 30 April 2015 - 06:11 PM.


#35 Big Nake

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 06:53 PM

Yum. Sounds great. Not surprised that you found Chil's beers to be great as he is definitely one to put some thought and fine-tuning into his beers. I threatened to go down there, meet him and drink all his beer but I have something better... nettles, come on down here and then we'll jump in the car and meet Chils and drink all his beer! :D

#36 neddles

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 06:56 PM

Yum. Sounds great. Not surprised that you found Chil's beers to be great as he is definitely one to put some thought and fine-tuning into his beers. I threatened to go down there, meet him and drink all his beer but I have something better... nettles, come on down here and then we'll jump in the car and meet Chils and drink all his beer! :D

I'm in!  :cabbagepatch:



#37 Steve Urquell

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 03:55 AM

Thank you for the review and the kind words. That's one beautiful lake setting for that top pic. Yes, I did dry hop that beer with Spalt Sel and Saaz but it didn't really come thru with as much aroma as I hoped. Even when it was green it barely had any. I did not gel that beer either for fear of messing with the hop character.

I really like the flavor of Spalt Select too. It is supposedly bred from Hallertau Mitt and Spalt to make it more hardy. I like to buy a lb of hops and use them in recipes like this to find out what character they have. I've used this hop in all my recipes and enjoyed it. I'm moving on to Saphir now and plan to use it in all of my standard lager recipes until I'm done with the pound. Same process with yeast. This round will be Saphir and Wyeast 2002 Gambrinus.

This beer was meant to be a German lager version of an APA. I've brewed the lager IPA big brother to it
and it was probably the best beer I've brewed. I killed that keg sofa king fast. I was like a zombie out for brains with that keg. :) It is here: https://www.brews-br...=indio-bavarian

I have the hops for it and it's on the plate for a rebrew with Saphir and 2002 in this round.

Ken, Dave, come on down. Got a nice porch overlooking the Ozark mountains and the taps are flowing with German and Czech lagers. Here's my front porch view:

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#38 HVB

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 04:39 AM

Both those beers look excellent and make me want a beer before 8AM. 



#39 neddles

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 05:17 AM

Thank you for the review and the kind words. That's one beautiful lake setting for that top pic. Yes, I did dry hop that beer with Spalt Sel and Saaz but it didn't really come thru with as much aroma as I hoped. Even when it was green it barely had any. I did not gel that beer either for fear of messing with the hop character. I really like the flavor of Spalt Select too. It is supposedly bred from Hallertau Mitt and Spalt to make it more hardy. I like to buy a lb of hops and use them in recipes like this to find out what character they have. I've used this hop in all my recipes and enjoyed it. I'm moving on to Saphir now and plan to use it in all of my standard lager recipes until I'm done with the pound. Same process with yeast. This round will be Saphir and Wyeast 2002 Gambrinus. This beer was meant to be a German lager version of an APA. I've brewed the lager IPA big brother to it and it was probably the best beer I've brewed. I killed that keg sofa king fast. I was like a zombie out for brains with that keg. :) It is here: https://www.brews-br...=indio-bavarian I have the hops for it and it's on the plate for a rebrew with Saphir and 2002 in this round. Ken, Dave, come on down. Got a nice porch overlooking the Ozark mountains and the taps are flowing with German and Czech lagers. Here's my front porch view:  

There was no need for gel, thats for sure. And I think a German lager version of an APA is a very apt description of what I was tasting here. I need to brew a beer like this.

 

It sounds like you are employing a strategy similar to what I am starting to do. Re-brewing base recipes altering just the yeast or hops or some other factor as a learning or tasting experience. 

 

I could enjoy a beer on that porch any day!



#40 Steve Urquell

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 05:42 AM

Both those beers look excellent and make me want a beer before 8AM.

Sometimes I'll have a little taste that early when brewing--just for analysis of course.    

It sounds like you are employing a strategy similar to what I am starting to do. Re-brewing base recipes altering just the yeast or hops or some other factor as a learning or tasting experience.    I could enjoy a beer on that porch any day!

Yep, you nailed that. I used to brew a different recipe every batch. Now, I'm very happy with my base German/Czech pils recipes. Took years to develop them to my palate. Love how just changing the yeast or hops changes the character of the finished beer and knowing what the base recipe tastes like gives me a good feel for a new ingredient. Sounds like a hoppy German lager is on your list. What do we call this style? GPL, KPL(Kraut Pale Lager)?


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