82 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

After looking at some of the Alts I made years ago, leafing through Beer Captured (nothing there ) and Designing Great Beers, I put a recipe together for a N. German Altbier. I am looking for what I always look for... balance, some authenticity and an all-around great-tasting Altbier. The gravity and hops are not over the top here.

N. German Altbier - 5 gallons, All-grain

3.25 lbs Munich
3 lbs Pilsner Malt
3 lbs Wheat
6 oz Belgian CaraMunich II
4 oz Carapils
1.33 oz Hallertau Tradition 4.6% for 60 mins
1 oz Tettnanger 2.4% for 20 mins
Wyeast 1007 German Ale yeast

OG: 1.055, FG: 1.013, IBU: 30, SRM: 9, ABV: 5.3%

I was thinking that Spalt would be better, but I am currently out of them. I was also playing with the hops (1.33 oz at 60 or just 1 oz, moving the late addition from 15 to 20, etc). I had a recipe years ago from Andy (Blktre) that I think I botched up with either high primary temps or a bad blob of WLP036. I don't really have a lot of experience making Alts and I don't see many commercial examples. I do plan to ferment this beer in the high 50s and then cold-condition on some gel solution so I can get the 1007 to drop out bright. Thanks for any input.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

After looking at some of the Alts I made years ago, leafing through Beer Captured (nothing there ) and Designing Great Beers, I put a recipe together for a N. German Altbier. I am looking for what I always look for... balance, some authenticity and an all-around great-tasting Altbier. The gravity and hops are not over the top here.

N. German Altbier - 5 gallons, All-grain

3.25 lbs Munich
3 lbs Pilsner Malt
3 lbs Wheat
6 oz Belgian CaraMunich II
4 oz Carapils
1.33 oz Hallertau Tradition 4.6% for 60 mins
1 oz Tettnanger 2.4% for 20 mins
Wyeast 1007 German Ale yeast

OG: 1.055, FG: 1.013, IBU: 30, SRM: 9, ABV: 5.3%

I was thinking that Spalt would be better, but I am currently out of them. I was also playing with the hops (1.33 oz at 60 or just 1 oz, moving the late addition from 15 to 20, etc). I had a recipe years ago from Andy (Blktre) that I think I botched up with either high primary temps or a bad blob of WLP036. I don't really have a lot of experience making Alts and I don't see many commercial examples. I do plan to ferment this beer in the high 50s and then cold-condition on some gel solution so I can get the 1007 to drop out bright. Thanks for any input.

I'm no expert on altbiers but here I go...

I think it needs more dark/roasted type barley in it. I think it's a little too pale right now. My 2 cents.

[Big Nake]

I found a recipe for something called "Pinkus Altbier" which is brewed in N. Germany and it was SRM 3! Very surprising. The minimum SRM for this style (from what I saw) was 11 and I'm at 9. Daniels' book says that using some Crystal is common. Maybe sub out the CaraMunich for something like Crystal 60 or 80? I don't want to use RB, Chocolate or Carafa (it's not really appropriate anyway) because of the roastiness.

[Humperdink]

I'm no expert on altbiers but here I go... I think it needs more dark/roasted type barley in it. I think it's a little too pale right now. My 2 cents.

Altbier has a large range from copper colored to pretty dang dark. The commercial examples I've had are generally on the darker/roastier side, but I prefer mine to be more on the copper end. I generally don't use any crystal or cara malts and derive almost all of my color from the use of munich and vienna. On the few occasions I added some carafa , it was pretty dark but without the roast. That's the way i like my alts but YMMV. i also generally don't use malted wheat in my traditional german ales, though I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think you'll like what you have there, like you said just keep it in the high fifties and pitch enough yeast. That yeast is a BEAST to get to flocculate though. If you can get ahold of it, try the K-97 from safale. I've been using that in place of the liquid German yeasts and like it just as well (split batch experiments).

[djinkc]

I would probably drop the wheat and bump up the pils and munich. I like a little carafa and melanoidin in most of mine. That's just me though.I made one that was hopped with Hersbrucker and Tettnanger - Entered it as a Duss though. Scored a 38 in the last COC - got dinged for not enough hops (that's a first for me ) - we thought it was a little to dark for a N. Ger.Anyway, I think your hops are fine. And blktre (tip of the hat) was the one that got me using melaniodin. Kunsan90 has some really nice recipes too.

Edited by dj in kc, 02 September 2009 - 03:41 PM.

[MtnBrewer]

I found a recipe for something called "Pinkus Altbier" which is brewed in N. Germany and it was SRM 3! Very surprising. The minimum SRM for this style (from what I saw) was 11 and I'm at 9. Daniels' book says that using some Crystal is common. Maybe sub out the CaraMunich for something like Crystal 60 or 80? I don't want to use RB, Chocolate or Carafa (it's not really appropriate anyway) because of the roastiness.

Carafa is perfectly appropriate. You won't really get any roasted flavor from 1 or 2%. You can also use Sinamar, which has no roasted flavor at all. I'd also replace the wheat with Munich and limit any crystal malt to 4-5%. Some melanoidin or aromatic malt (5% or so) would be beneficial to increase the maltiness. You need high attenuation too so lot's o' yeast, low mash, etc.

[Slainte]

Carafa is perfectly appropriate. You won't really get any roasted flavor from 1 or 2%. You can also use Sinamar, which has no roasted flavor at all. I'd also replace the wheat with Munich and limit any crystal malt to 4-5%. Some melanoidin or aromatic malt (5% or so) would be beneficial to increase the maltiness. You need high attenuation too so lot's o' yeast, low mash, etc.

Yep, as long as it's the dehusked Carafa Special. The normal kind is like a chocolate malt. Agreed with your suggestions.

[djinkc]

Yep, as long as it's the dehusked Carafa Special. The normal kind is like a chocolate malt. Agreed with your suggestions.

I prefer the dehusked. I mindlessly bought some Carafa 1 from the LHBS - that's all they carry IIRC. It worked fine at a little less than 2% - no perceptible roastiness IMO. I've used more with Carafa III but that probably took it out of style.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I prefer the dehusked. I mindlessly bought some Carafa 1 from the LHBS - that's all they carry IIRC. It worked fine at a little less than 2% - no perceptible roastiness IMO. I've used more with Carafa III but that probably took it out of style.

I was thinking carafa III as well since it works well in a dunkelweizen.

[Big Nake]

Thanks guys. Well, I don't really want to lose sleep over color and then add something that doesn't necessarily belong. I also thought that using wheat was common in an Altbier, but that shows you what I know. No wheat at all? If not, I'll scratch the wheat. As far as color goes, I also have the following dark/darker specialties: C40, C60, C80, C120, CaraMunich II, Black Malt, Roasted Barley, Chocolate and Special B. I'd rather not sinamar just to add color. I assume that if I sub the wheat with Munich, I'd get a bit more color... but I don't think I would gain another 3 or 4 SRM points.

[ncbeerbrewer]

Ken, I would sub out the Wheat. I have brewed a few Alt beers and even placed Honorable Mention in a comp with mine too. I used 68% German Pils25% Munich4% Crystal 80L1% Black Patent13.5 SRM48 IBU with Spalt1.5oz 60 mins1oz 15 minsWyeast 1007.Enjoy the yeast. It can be a wild fermenter and I agree I like the low 60's for it as well. I am sure you will get a killer recipe together. Good Luck!!

[Big Nake]

Okay, good stuff. I will put something together and give it a try. On the yeast, I have used 1007 a number of times and I like it. I was even able to get the beers made with 1007 very clear after some time in secondary with gel solution and some cold-conditioning.

Oh hey... your percentages only come out to 98%! That's just not right.

What about some thing like this...

6½ lbs Pilsner Malt (65%)
3 lbs Munich (30%)
8 oz Crystal 80°L (5%)
1 oz Black Malt (½%)

1.33 oz Hallertau Tradition 4.6% for 60
1 oz Tettnanger 2.4% for 20

OG: 1.054, FG: 1.014, IBU: 32, SRM: 12, ABV: 5.2%

[Recklessdeck]

Looks good but you wouldn't regret a half pound or so of melanoidin, its a great malt for this beer.

[Big Nake]

I think I may have some... I will check. Cheers!

[ncbeerbrewer]

Okay, good stuff. I will put something together and give it a try. On the yeast, I have used 1007 a number of times and I like it. I was even able to get the beers made with 1007 very clear after some time in secondary with gel solution and some cold-conditioning.

Oh hey... your percentages only come out to 98%! That's just not right.

What about some thing like this...

6½ lbs Pilsner Malt (65%)
3 lbs Munich (30%)
8 oz Crystal 80°L (5%)
1 oz Black Malt (½%)

1.33 oz Hallertau Tradition 4.6% for 60
1 oz Tettnanger 2.4% for 20

OG: 1.054, FG: 1.014, IBU: 32, SRM: 12, ABV: 5.2%

Looks good to me Ken. I know you don't seem to be much for overly hoppy but I hopped my version to 30-32 back in 2008 and it got dinged for not enough hop presense. The recipe I quoted you above I hopped to 48 IBU. Sorry about the %. The Pils was like 68.3% and each other malt was a ##.#% as well, I just did a bit of ballpark rounding to be honest. I like your recipe though. I say give it a go and see what you think. Then you can rebrew it with the melanoidin as well. I have had good fortune with 1007 as well with clearing. I don't use any gel but cold conditioning at 35-38 degrees for 30-45 days does really well too. Have a great brew and let us know how it turns out.

[Slainte]

Looks good to me Ken. I know you don't seem to be much for overly hoppy but I hopped my version to 30-32 back in 2008 and it got dinged for not enough hop presense.

Don't forget he's making a North German Alt. Those tend to have lower hop flavor and aroma than the Dussy Alts. Also, in my experience many judges incorrectly expect a lot of finishing hops with Alts, unfortunately.

[Big Nake]

Yeah, I'm thinking more along the lines of N. German Alt and I know what kind of bitterness works well for me and those who will be drinking my beer. I don't really pay much attention to what a comp judge says, to be honest. Also, I like the idea of the Melanoidin and I happen to have about ½ pound of it so I may be trying to work that into the recipe too. The jury is still out on the addition of the Crystal malt. Also, in Daniels' book, he says that hop flavor and aroma should be almost none... this is why I put the last addition at 20 instead of 15, although I see a lot of you like it at 15. This recipe is tougher to put together than I thought.

[MtnBrewer]

For a N. German Alt, I think I'd remove the final hop addition completely. You're allowed to have some hoppiness in Dusseldorfs but in a N. Ger. there should only be bitterness. You could also reverse the ratio of pils to Munich malt if you wanted to.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

For a N. German Alt, I think I'd remove the final hop addition completely. You're allowed to have some hoppiness in Dusseldorfs but in a N. Ger. there should only be bitterness. You could also reverse the ratio of pils to Munich malt if you wanted to.

I'd think FWH would be the way to go with a beer like this. That's just my opinion though.

[Big Nake]

Okay, so let me add the latest version...

6½ lbs Pilsner Malt
3 lbs Munich
8 oz Crystal 80°L
4 oz Melanoidin
½ oz Black Malt

1 oz Hallertau Tradition 5.8% for 60 plus
.33 oz Hallertau Tradition 4.6% for 60 (about 7.3 AAU)
No other hops other than the 60 min addition... although I like the idea of some FWH too
Wyeast 1007

OG: 1.055, FG: 1.014, IBU: 31, SRM: 12, ABV: 5.3%

This is starting to look very nice to me.