Playing with an Altbier recipe...
#1
Posted 02 September 2009 - 02:58 PM
N. German Altbier - 5 gallons, All-grain
3.25 lbs Munich
3 lbs Pilsner Malt
3 lbs Wheat
6 oz Belgian CaraMunich II
4 oz Carapils
1.33 oz Hallertau Tradition 4.6% for 60 mins
1 oz Tettnanger 2.4% for 20 mins
Wyeast 1007 German Ale yeast
OG: 1.055, FG: 1.013, IBU: 30, SRM: 9, ABV: 5.3%
I was thinking that Spalt would be better, but I am currently out of them. I was also playing with the hops (1.33 oz at 60 or just 1 oz, moving the late addition from 15 to 20, etc). I had a recipe years ago from Andy (Blktre) that I think I botched up with either high primary temps or a bad blob of WLP036. I don't really have a lot of experience making Alts and I don't see many commercial examples. I do plan to ferment this beer in the high 50s and then cold-condition on some gel solution so I can get the 1007 to drop out bright. Thanks for any input.
#2
Posted 02 September 2009 - 03:27 PM
I'm no expert on altbiers but here I go...After looking at some of the Alts I made years ago, leafing through Beer Captured (nothing there ) and Designing Great Beers, I put a recipe together for a N. German Altbier. I am looking for what I always look for... balance, some authenticity and an all-around great-tasting Altbier. The gravity and hops are not over the top here.
N. German Altbier - 5 gallons, All-grain
3.25 lbs Munich
3 lbs Pilsner Malt
3 lbs Wheat
6 oz Belgian CaraMunich II
4 oz Carapils
1.33 oz Hallertau Tradition 4.6% for 60 mins
1 oz Tettnanger 2.4% for 20 mins
Wyeast 1007 German Ale yeast
OG: 1.055, FG: 1.013, IBU: 30, SRM: 9, ABV: 5.3%
I was thinking that Spalt would be better, but I am currently out of them. I was also playing with the hops (1.33 oz at 60 or just 1 oz, moving the late addition from 15 to 20, etc). I had a recipe years ago from Andy (Blktre) that I think I botched up with either high primary temps or a bad blob of WLP036. I don't really have a lot of experience making Alts and I don't see many commercial examples. I do plan to ferment this beer in the high 50s and then cold-condition on some gel solution so I can get the 1007 to drop out bright. Thanks for any input.
I think it needs more dark/roasted type barley in it. I think it's a little too pale right now. My 2 cents.
#3
Posted 02 September 2009 - 03:34 PM
#4
Posted 02 September 2009 - 03:34 PM
Altbier has a large range from copper colored to pretty dang dark. The commercial examples I've had are generally on the darker/roastier side, but I prefer mine to be more on the copper end. I generally don't use any crystal or cara malts and derive almost all of my color from the use of munich and vienna. On the few occasions I added some carafa , it was pretty dark but without the roast. That's the way i like my alts but YMMV. i also generally don't use malted wheat in my traditional german ales, though I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think you'll like what you have there, like you said just keep it in the high fifties and pitch enough yeast. That yeast is a BEAST to get to flocculate though. If you can get ahold of it, try the K-97 from safale. I've been using that in place of the liquid German yeasts and like it just as well (split batch experiments).I'm no expert on altbiers but here I go... I think it needs more dark/roasted type barley in it. I think it's a little too pale right now. My 2 cents.
#5
Posted 02 September 2009 - 03:36 PM
Edited by dj in kc, 02 September 2009 - 03:41 PM.
#6
Posted 02 September 2009 - 03:53 PM
Carafa is perfectly appropriate. You won't really get any roasted flavor from 1 or 2%. You can also use Sinamar, which has no roasted flavor at all. I'd also replace the wheat with Munich and limit any crystal malt to 4-5%. Some melanoidin or aromatic malt (5% or so) would be beneficial to increase the maltiness. You need high attenuation too so lot's o' yeast, low mash, etc.I found a recipe for something called "Pinkus Altbier" which is brewed in N. Germany and it was SRM 3! Very surprising. The minimum SRM for this style (from what I saw) was 11 and I'm at 9. Daniels' book says that using some Crystal is common. Maybe sub out the CaraMunich for something like Crystal 60 or 80? I don't want to use RB, Chocolate or Carafa (it's not really appropriate anyway) because of the roastiness.
#7
Posted 02 September 2009 - 04:13 PM
Yep, as long as it's the dehusked Carafa Special. The normal kind is like a chocolate malt. Agreed with your suggestions.Carafa is perfectly appropriate. You won't really get any roasted flavor from 1 or 2%. You can also use Sinamar, which has no roasted flavor at all. I'd also replace the wheat with Munich and limit any crystal malt to 4-5%. Some melanoidin or aromatic malt (5% or so) would be beneficial to increase the maltiness. You need high attenuation too so lot's o' yeast, low mash, etc.
#8
Posted 02 September 2009 - 04:33 PM
I prefer the dehusked. I mindlessly bought some Carafa 1 from the LHBS - that's all they carry IIRC. It worked fine at a little less than 2% - no perceptible roastiness IMO. I've used more with Carafa III but that probably took it out of style.Yep, as long as it's the dehusked Carafa Special. The normal kind is like a chocolate malt. Agreed with your suggestions.
#9
Posted 02 September 2009 - 06:16 PM
I was thinking carafa III as well since it works well in a dunkelweizen.I prefer the dehusked. I mindlessly bought some Carafa 1 from the LHBS - that's all they carry IIRC. It worked fine at a little less than 2% - no perceptible roastiness IMO. I've used more with Carafa III but that probably took it out of style.
#10
Posted 02 September 2009 - 06:59 PM
#11
Posted 02 September 2009 - 07:06 PM
#12
Posted 02 September 2009 - 07:36 PM
Oh hey... your percentages only come out to 98%! That's just not right.
What about some thing like this...
6½ lbs Pilsner Malt (65%)
3 lbs Munich (30%)
8 oz Crystal 80°L (5%)
1 oz Black Malt (½%)
1.33 oz Hallertau Tradition 4.6% for 60
1 oz Tettnanger 2.4% for 20
OG: 1.054, FG: 1.014, IBU: 32, SRM: 12, ABV: 5.2%
#13
Posted 02 September 2009 - 07:52 PM
#14
Posted 02 September 2009 - 07:57 PM
#15
Posted 03 September 2009 - 02:44 AM
Looks good to me Ken. I know you don't seem to be much for overly hoppy but I hopped my version to 30-32 back in 2008 and it got dinged for not enough hop presense. The recipe I quoted you above I hopped to 48 IBU. Sorry about the %. The Pils was like 68.3% and each other malt was a ##.#% as well, I just did a bit of ballpark rounding to be honest. I like your recipe though. I say give it a go and see what you think. Then you can rebrew it with the melanoidin as well. I have had good fortune with 1007 as well with clearing. I don't use any gel but cold conditioning at 35-38 degrees for 30-45 days does really well too. Have a great brew and let us know how it turns out.Okay, good stuff. I will put something together and give it a try. On the yeast, I have used 1007 a number of times and I like it. I was even able to get the beers made with 1007 very clear after some time in secondary with gel solution and some cold-conditioning.
Oh hey... your percentages only come out to 98%! That's just not right.
What about some thing like this...
6½ lbs Pilsner Malt (65%)
3 lbs Munich (30%)
8 oz Crystal 80°L (5%)
1 oz Black Malt (½%)
1.33 oz Hallertau Tradition 4.6% for 60
1 oz Tettnanger 2.4% for 20
OG: 1.054, FG: 1.014, IBU: 32, SRM: 12, ABV: 5.2%
#16
Posted 03 September 2009 - 04:41 AM
Don't forget he's making a North German Alt. Those tend to have lower hop flavor and aroma than the Dussy Alts. Also, in my experience many judges incorrectly expect a lot of finishing hops with Alts, unfortunately.Looks good to me Ken. I know you don't seem to be much for overly hoppy but I hopped my version to 30-32 back in 2008 and it got dinged for not enough hop presense.
#17
Posted 03 September 2009 - 05:45 AM
#18
Posted 03 September 2009 - 06:10 AM
#19
Posted 03 September 2009 - 06:41 AM
I'd think FWH would be the way to go with a beer like this. That's just my opinion though.For a N. German Alt, I think I'd remove the final hop addition completely. You're allowed to have some hoppiness in Dusseldorfs but in a N. Ger. there should only be bitterness. You could also reverse the ratio of pils to Munich malt if you wanted to.
#20
Posted 03 September 2009 - 07:05 AM
6½ lbs Pilsner Malt
3 lbs Munich
8 oz Crystal 80°L
4 oz Melanoidin
½ oz Black Malt
1 oz Hallertau Tradition 5.8% for 60 plus
.33 oz Hallertau Tradition 4.6% for 60 (about 7.3 AAU)
No other hops other than the 60 min addition... although I like the idea of some FWH too
Wyeast 1007
OG: 1.055, FG: 1.014, IBU: 31, SRM: 12, ABV: 5.3%
This is starting to look very nice to me.
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