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Phosphoric acid


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#41 positiveContact

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 12:23 PM

I used to drain pretty much right away. The only reason it takes me slightly longer to drain now is that I wait until my sample cools and I get a good pH reading. Although my sparge pH reading is pretty much a formality now because I'm adding 1.5 to 2.0ml of acid to the sparge water as it's heating so the reading is just to find out where it is, not to see if it's too high. I agree that a higher-than-desired kettle pH can futz with your beer as well but let's put it this way: If I had a mash pH of 5.2 and my sparge pH somehow got to 6.2, my kettle pH should be somewhere around 5.7 (I realize it could swing a little) which should not cause a problem in the kettle. That would suggest that in that example, the 6.2 pH of the sparge caused more damage to the beer than the kettle pH. I have actually been thinking that I'm overdoing the pH lately because I have had some batches with a mash pH of 5.2 and some with a sparge pH of 5.2 or 5.3, leaving me with a kettle pH of 5.2 to 5.3 which is probably too low. I may be making more of that than necessary but I plan to ease off the acid a little.

 

That is an impressive pH you obtained in your sparge.  I'm glad you finally found the answer in acidifying your sparge water!



#42 Big Nake

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 12:36 PM

That is an impressive pH you obtained in your sparge.  I'm glad you finally found the answer in acidifying your sparge water!

I think it was Brauer who suggested pre-acidifying the sparge water to get it to a point where you could be sure it wouldn't go too high. Simple and genius at the same time. Again, I was operating under the assumption that a batch-sparger couldn't cause damage in the sparge so I often overlooked that as a possibility or a place to look for issues.

#43 MtnBrewer

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 12:45 PM

I think it was Brauer who suggested pre-acidifying the sparge water to get it to a point where you could be sure it wouldn't go too high. Simple and genius at the same time. Again, I was operating under the assumption that a batch-sparger couldn't cause damage in the sparge so I often overlooked that as a possibility or a place to look for issues.

It's a nice cheap bit of insurance.

#44 positiveContact

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 01:00 PM

I think that perhaps I'll measure my sparge pH next time I brew.  How long does it take for the pH to stabilize?



#45 Big Nake

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 01:01 PM

It's a nice cheap bit of insurance.

It really is and it's given me some confidence and another tool in my toolbox. I still have a few areas of brewing where I just close my eyes and assume that "the magic will happen and I don't need to bother myself with it" and I am looking into resolving those issues. Mash and sparge pH were one of those areas as was getting a clear and concise mash temp (Thermapen resolved that). But pitching healthy yeast, how many cells, etc. is still an area of concern along with a few other minor things.

#46 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 01:14 PM

I just ordered some pipettes because of this thread so I can measure mL's going into the sparge better.



#47 codemonkey

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 01:17 PM

I just ordered some pipettes because of this thread so I can measure mL's going into the sparge better.

I've been using the one that came with my refractometer, but I left wort in it recently and now there's this fuzzy black spot that won't come out. :(



#48 Mya

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 01:18 PM

I've been using the one that came with my refractometer, but I left wort in it recently and now there's this fuzzy black spot that won't come out. :(

I use a veterinary syringe



#49 SchwanzBrewer

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 02:06 PM

I've been using the one that came with my refractometer, but I left wort in it recently and now there's this fuzzy black spot that won't come out. :(

 

You can get 100 that have 1, 2, and 3 mL marking for about $5 on amazon.



#50 neddles

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 02:16 PM

I use an extra children's medicine dropper we had laying around.



#51 Big Nake

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 02:49 PM

I use an extra children's medicine dropper we had laying around.

Bingo. Marked in milliliters and everything. I better not lose it though because it's the only one I have.

#52 neddles

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 02:56 PM

Bingo. Marked in milliliters and everything. I better not lose it though because it's the only one I have.

A pharmacy will probably give you one for free if you ask.



#53 Big Nake

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 03:05 PM

A pharmacy will probably give you one for free if you ask.

Ah!* jots that down in notebook * :P

#54 MtnBrewer

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 05:21 PM

I just ordered some pipettes because of this thread so I can measure mL's going into the sparge better.

That's what I use too. You can use your mouth to suck some up into the tube if you need to. I think mine's a 10mL pipette and it's a little longer than a foot.

#55 codemonkey

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 05:40 PM

You can get 100 that have 1, 2, and 3 mL marking for about $5 on amazon.

I've been looking at those for a few weeks now, but I don't have prime so it'll be another month or two before I amass another $30 worth of crap :D

#56 Brauer

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 04:14 AM

...However, I do wonder if there could be some variation between an ounce or two here ounces here/or a few ounces there within a sack that averages out in the large quantities that breweries are using it. 

 

All that said, FWIW AJ DeLange insists that he gets better flavor from acid malt than from lactic acid alone. Martin's BrunWater info page suggests this as well. I am doubtful my palette would notice difference but maybe I'll try it again someday...

I can imagine there could be some variation within a bag. German maltsters are masters of consistency, though.

 

I haven't tested it, but I would think that grain plus lactic acid would taste the same as grain with lactic acid sprayed on it. Perhaps those brewers just like the flavor of the grain that the maltster has sprayed the acid onto.  I just think that it is a lot easier for most brewers to weigh grain, which they are already doing, instead of dealing with a pipette and a bottle of acid, which they need to store someplace safe.



#57 MtnBrewer

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 07:42 AM

which they need to store someplace safe.

Someplace safe? I store mine right next to my HLT. Am I doing it wrong?

#58 denny

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 08:32 AM

I just ordered some pipettes because of this thread so I can measure mL's going into the sparge better.

 

I just picked up a cheap medical syringe at the discount store.



#59 Brauer

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:11 AM

Someplace safe? I store mine right next to my HLT. Am I doing it wrong?

It depends. Do you have kids? Is it above eye level? Do you have anything alkaline nearby, like bleach, that could mix with it and react violently? It's a weak acid, but you should still be careful with it. Right next to my tun would be at the bottom of the stairs on the floor, so that would be a bad spot because I would kick it over.I understand why some brewers prefer it, though. It's just (probably) no better or worse than Acid Malt and comes with it's own set of small headaches.

#60 MtnBrewer

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:14 AM

Those seem like extremely small headaches indeed. All offset by the one simple fact that if I add lactic acid to the mash or sparge water, I know how much I'm adding.


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