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The Transatlantic Pale Ale


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#1 positiveContact

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 06:39 AM

So this will be a 10 gallon batch that I'll split in half.  One half gets S-04.  The other half gets US-05.  In order to be fair I'm going to formulate this beer as sort of an american/english hybrid.

 

I'll likely use CMC pale ale malt as the base.  It's from Canada so that's kind of a hybrid right there.

Then I was thinking maybe a touch (4-6 oz) of victory malt and a moderate amount (1-1.5lb) of crystal 60-80ish.  Then maybe for fun I'd throw in a pound or two of flaked barley since I think I have some and I hardly ever use the stuff.

 

The gravity will be about 1.050.  I'll probably mash about 154F, single infusion followed by a batch sparge.  I'll acidify the mash gypsum to adjust for pH and to up my sulfate and calcium.

 

For bittering I'll probably use magnum b/c it's fairly neutral and gets the job done.  After accounting for my late hop additions I'll use the magnum to push the total IBUs up to about 40.

 

I'm planning to use EKG as one of the hops in this beer.  The other I'm not sure.  I'd be interested to hear what american hops people have mixed with EKG.  I have citra, amarillo, columbus, cent, cascade (home grown), mt. hood, palisade, and some others I can't think of right now.  I'll probably do some 5-0 min additions and then do a hop stand mid chill.

 

any thoughts are welcome for consideration.  :cheers:



#2 HVB

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 06:43 AM

What about adding some Vienna?

 

I think that EKG and Cents would go well. 



#3 positiveContact

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 06:46 AM

What about adding some Vienna?

 

I think that EKG and Cents would go well. 

 

I believe I used up all of my vienna to make the o'fest this year.  I could buy more but I was planning to just use what I had on hand.  I do have munich and pils as well.  i also have some amount of maris otter.



#4 Bklmt2000

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 06:46 AM

EKG and Cascade also works well together.  That could work nicely for the UK half of the batch.

 

For the US half, Citra and Amarillo play nicely together, too.



#5 positiveContact

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 07:14 AM

EKG and Cascade also works well together.  That could work nicely for the UK half of the batch.

 

For the US half, Citra and Amarillo play nicely together, too.

 

I'm going to keep the beers as similar as possible except for the yeast.  it will all get mashed, boiled, and chilled together and then split into the fermentors.

 

maybe an EKG, cascade, cent mix for the hops would be good.



#6 neddles

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 07:14 AM

I think your grist would make a nice pale ale. I would try 3:3:2 of EKG:Cascade:Willamette if you want to be a little more old school about it, and if you have Willamette on hand. Are you boiling the 10 gallons as one boil or 2 boils of 5 gallon batches as assumed by Bklmt2000? Also agree that EKG and Centennial would probably be nice and if you didn't use EKG then go with Citra/Amarillo.

 

Have you considered doing all 40 IBU of magnum and adding all the late hops to the hop stand? I am probably :deadhorse: but I have been very happy with the hop character I have been getting that way in my APA/IPA.

 

ETA: Bad timing, you answered the boil question.


Edited by ettels4, 11 June 2014 - 07:15 AM.


#7 positiveContact

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 07:23 AM

I think your grist would make a nice pale ale. I would try 3:3:2 of EKG:Cascade:Willamette if you want to be a little more old school about it, and if you have Willamette on hand. Are you boiling the 10 gallons as one boil or 2 boils of 5 gallon batches as assumed by Bklmt2000? Also agree that EKG and Centennial would probably be nice and if you didn't use EKG then go with Citra/Amarillo.

 

Have you considered doing all 40 IBU of magnum and adding all the late hops to the hop stand? I am probably :deadhorse: but I have been very happy with the hop character I have been getting that way in my APA/IPA.

 

ETA: Bad timing, you answered the boil question.

 

i think i do have some willamette so that is a possibility.

 

i hesitate to rely on my cascades to provide the whole american hop punch as i've found mine are mostly floral without too much in the way of citrus.  i'd probably do a cent/cascade mix to be safe.

 

what has your hop stand procedure been like?  temp?  time? any agitation?  I don't really have a great way to move the hops around during my hop stand.  they are in a cylindrical SS screen and the screen is inside my IC.  b/c of this i can't move them around too much during the hop stand.



#8 neddles

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 07:40 AM

i think i do have some willamette so that is a possibility.

 

i hesitate to rely on my cascades to provide the whole american hop punch as i've found mine are mostly floral without too much in the way of citrus.  i'd probably do a cent/cascade mix to be safe.

 

what has your hop stand procedure been like?  temp?  time? any agitation?  I don't really have a great way to move the hops around during my hop stand.  they are in a cylindrical SS screen and the screen is inside my IC.  b/c of this i can't move them around too much during the hop stand.

I dump them in around 160-165F and let them sit for at least 20 min and lately 30 min. I would think that if you could stir/agitate occasionally with a spoon inside and outside the SS screen that would be fine. To be honest I haven't found that stirring continuously or even intermittently during the steep has made a bit of difference. But my hops are loose in the kettle not in a SS screen. I throw them in and give them a good vigorous stir/swirl until they are broken up (pellets that is) and then just let them sit until I start cooling. At which point I am always stirring. 



#9 positiveContact

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:03 AM

I dump them in around 160-165F and let them sit for at least 20 min and lately 30 min. I would think that if you could stir/agitate occasionally with a spoon inside and outside the SS screen that would be fine. To be honest I haven't found that stirring continuously or even intermittently during the steep has made a bit of difference. But my hops are loose in the kettle not in a SS screen. I throw them in and give them a good vigorous stir/swirl until they are broken up (pellets that is) and then just let them sit until I start cooling. At which point I am always stirring. 

 

within the screen they are free.  it's about 6" in diameter and goes all the way to the bottom of the kettle.



#10 neddles

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:12 AM

within the screen they are free.  it's about 6" in diameter and goes all the way to the bottom of the kettle.

I think thats fine. I want to get one of those SS screens more or less to prevent so much wort loss with pellets.



#11 positiveContact

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:20 AM

I think thats fine. I want to get one of those SS screens more or less to prevent so much wort loss with pellets.

 

i'm pretty happy with it so far.  i sometimes still clog up the drain on my kettle though.  i'm sure some amount of pellet particles make it through the screen but i think it's actually due to break material more than anything.



#12 HVB

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:37 AM

i'm pretty happy with it so far.  i sometimes still clog up the drain on my kettle though.  i'm sure some amount of pellet particles make it through the screen but i think it's actually due to break material more than anything.

 

I have not had any clogging issues with mine.  I bet it is break matter too.



#13 neddles

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 08:47 AM

I siphon from the kettle to the fermentor so clogging isn't an issue here. I have had a massive amount of hops go into the fermentor before with no issues whatsoever except for the volume loss. Which can be significant on some big IPAs.



#14 positiveContact

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:46 AM

so as to the recipe - i'm pretty comfy with it in general but i haven't used victory a lot.  am i using it at a reasonable rate?  does it make sense in a pale ale?



#15 HVB

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:16 AM

so as to the recipe - i'm pretty comfy with it in general but i haven't used victory a lot.  am i using it at a reasonable rate?  does it make sense in a pale ale?

I think it will be fine in an APA.



#16 neddles

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:20 AM

so as to the recipe - i'm pretty comfy with it in general but i haven't used victory a lot.  am i using it at a reasonable rate?  does it make sense in a pale ale?

yes and yes. I like it. Some liken it to biscuit malt but I have found I like victory a lot more. To me I get a pleasant crackery malty flavor from victory but biscuit gave me a strong toasted malt flavor from the same quantity. I have used 8oz and 12oz in pales and IPA and liked it quite a bit. I once used 12oz biscuit in a bitter and that was a big mistake, way too strong. I'm sure not all biscuit malts are created equal so I should note the one I used was Dingeman's

 

ETA: At 4-6oz. in a 10 gallon batch the victory contribution will be quite subtle IME, especially with a solid charge of flavor/aroma hopping.


Edited by ettels4, 11 June 2014 - 10:22 AM.


#17 Big Nake

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:29 AM

Should be good. I'll admit that when I make an English beer, I'm looking forward to the character I'm going to get from some of these great liquid English ale strains. I have 1968 going right now (a clone of the Goose Island 312 Urban Pale Ale) and I'm going to make another bitter/EPA with Nugget, EKGs and the 1968. I realize this is "transatlantic" so authentic English ingredients be damned. Good luck with the beer.

#18 positiveContact

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:52 AM

yes and yes. I like it. Some liken it to biscuit malt but I have found I like victory a lot more. To me I get a pleasant crackery malty flavor from victory but biscuit gave me a strong toasted malt flavor from the same quantity. I have used 8oz and 12oz in pales and IPA and liked it quite a bit. I once used 12oz biscuit in a bitter and that was a big mistake, way too strong. I'm sure not all biscuit malts are created equal so I should note the one I used was Dingeman's

 

ETA: At 4-6oz. in a 10 gallon batch the victory contribution will be quite subtle IME, especially with a solid charge of flavor/aroma hopping.

 

okay - I'll probably go with the 6 oz then.  worst case is it doesn't add much which is better than too much.

 

Should be good. I'll admit that when I make an English beer, I'm looking forward to the character I'm going to get from some of these great liquid English ale strains. I have 1968 going right now (a clone of the Goose Island 312 Urban Pale Ale) and I'm going to make another bitter/EPA with Nugget, EKGs and the 1968. I realize this is "transatlantic" so authentic English ingredients be damned. Good luck with the beer.

 

damned indeed!  I've got a couple of packets of S-04 so I'd like to use them up.  I think if I do this again I might split a batch of brown ale or stout.

 

I think the only english yeast strain i've used that's liquid is 1318.  it was a nice yeast.  at some point I'll try some others.  you guys all seem to like 1968 quite a bit.



#19 Big Nake

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 11:26 AM

okay - I'll probably go with the 6 oz then.  worst case is it doesn't add much which is better than too much.     damned indeed!  I've got a couple of packets of S-04 so I'd like to use them up.  I think if I do this again I might split a batch of brown ale or stout.   I think the only english yeast strain i've used that's liquid is 1318.  it was a nice yeast.  at some point I'll try some others.  you guys all seem to like 1968 quite a bit.

1968 is a great yeast. 1028, 1762, 1098, 1099, 1469 and the list goes on. These are great 'neutral' ale yeasts but they bring that bready, crackery & minerally character to the beer. These are almost all low-attenuaters and high-floccers so you're going to get a malty, clear ale as a result and mash temp should take that into consideration. 1968 just dares you to keep it in suspension. You have to rouse the fermenter a few times to make sure it doesn't quit & go to sleep on you. But the resulting beer is ordinarily outstanding. Cheers.

Edited by KenLenard, 11 June 2014 - 11:26 AM.


#20 neddles

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 12:01 PM

1968 is a great yeast. 1028, 1762, 1098, 1099, 1469 and the list goes on. These are great 'neutral' ale yeasts but they bring that bready, crackery & minerally character to the beer. These are almost all low-attenuaters and high-floccers so you're going to get a malty, clear ale as a result and mash temp should take that into consideration. 1968 just dares you to keep it in suspension. You have to rouse the fermenter a few times to make sure it doesn't quit & go to sleep on you. But the resulting beer is ordinarily outstanding. Cheers.

Except 1028. Its a low floccer and higher attenuator IME. And 1762, thats a belgian abbey strain… something makes me think that coming from Ken it's a typo.




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