25 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

I was at a bud's house last Sunday (his wife is German-American and her parents speak with an uber-thick German accent) and he had a bunch of Hofbrau Oktoberfest that he said he picked up at Costco. I have had a number of German Oktobers including Hacker-Pschorr, Paulaner, Spaten and Ayinger but not this one. The color surprised me because it's light... maybe 4-5 SRM. But the flavor was awesome. It's such a simple-tasting, simple-looking beer but it's very satisfying. These must've been fresh or at least stored properly because there was no skunking depsite the green bottle. Does anyone have a feel for how to create such a straightforward yet satisfying beer? It occurs to me that many US versions of Oktoberfest are too dark, fruity, roasty or any combination of those. I wonder if you could make a beer like this with 100% light Munich malt from Weyermann (these usually clock in around 6 SRM) or maybe 75% light munich and the rest pilsner malt. The hops seemed to be 60-minute only but maybe a FWH addition as well. The yeast seemed like something along the lines of 2124 Bohemian which is a great lager yeast. Any thoughts on this?

[positiveContact]

Last time I had this was in Chicago in the fall. I love this beer. It's been a while though so I'd have a hard time guessing what exactly should be going in... I can't imagine using 100% munich for this though. I say no more than 50% but probably less.

[shaggaroo]

I'm fairly certain that Hofbrau's festbier is a helles...

[Big Nake]

I saw a thread on Homebrewtalk where they were saying it was more of a Helles. Some agreed with that while others said that was incorrect. If you go by the color alone, I could see it but it's probably a lazy comparison. It tastes like a great festbier that happens to be lighter in color. Any insight would be aawweessoommee!

[chuck_d]

What I think is mostly the issue is that American brewers, especially homebrewers, tend to think of Oktoberfest beers as being amber lagers. This can be seen in the style guidelines of the BJCP versus the BA. The BJCP suggests that the SRM of an Oktoberfest be 7-14, while the BA guidelines state 3-5. These are mutually exclusive, no crossover. So technically an Oktoberfest brewed to style in the BA would be out of style in BJCP. I believe this is because the BJCP is using an ideal of a traditional Oktoberfest, while the BA is reflecting the Oktoberfest beers that are brewed in Munich today. Actually, the BA style guide has Helles's range going just a touch darker (4-5.5) than Oktoberfest, and O'fest's color range actually goes lighter than Helles. I was chatting with a Shelton brother who said he can't remember Oktoberfest in Munich ever having amber lagers, after several times over the course of decades. I can't think of a Munich-based Oktoberfest that is an amber, but I'm not trying very hard at the moment

[Big Nake]

Paulaner and Hacker-Pschorr both have some color, for sure. Ayinger's is called an Oktoberfest-Marzenbier and has a hint of amber to it. Spaten's Oktober is a dark gold and this Hofbrau Oktober is probably 5-6. Remember too that Hofbrau actually makes a Helles... what is referred to as their Hofbrau Original which is a little lighter than the Oktober, I think. I was just working out a recipe with BryanH on NB and came up with a preliminary...

A quick recipe formulation...

7 lbs Best Malz Pilsner Malt
4½ lbs Weyermann Vienna
½ oz Hallertau 4.7% FWH
1 oz Hallertau 4.7% for 60
Wyeast 2124 Bohemian Lager yeast

OG: 1.060, FG: 1.015, IBU: 25, SRM: 6, ABV: 5.8%

Any feel for a mash schedule? Step mash 142x30 then 158x60 or just single infusion 150-151°? I think I have a water makeup too... 50% RO, 50% filtered tap. Thoughts?

[positiveContact]

Paulaner and Hacker-Pschorr both have some color, for sure. Ayinger's is called an Oktoberfest-Marzenbier and has a hint of amber to it. Spaten's Oktober is a dark gold and this Hofbrau Oktober is probably 5-6. Remember too that Hofbrau actually makes a Helles... what is referred to as their Hofbrau Original which is a little lighter than the Oktober, I think. I was just working out a recipe with BryanH on NB and came up with a preliminary...

A quick recipe formulation...

7 lbs Best Malz Pilsner Malt
4½ lbs Weyermann Vienna
½ oz Hallertau 4.7% FWH
1 oz Hallertau 4.7% for 60
Wyeast 2124 Bohemian Lager yeast

OG: 1.060, FG: 1.015, IBU: 25, SRM: 6, ABV: 5.8%

Any feel for a mash schedule? Step mash 142x30 then 158x60 or just single infusion 150-151°? I think I have a water makeup too... 50% RO, 50% filtered tap. Thoughts?

That seems possible but I haven't used enough vienna to really nail the taste of it down. Maybe I'll try making something like this in addition to my regular o'fest beer this year to have 2 on tap next fall

[Big Nake]

I'm having this CONVERSATION over on the NB board as well. Smacked the pack of 2124 this morning and plan to make this beer some time next week!

[positiveContact]

I'm having this CONVERSATION over on the NB board as well. Smacked the pack of 2124 this morning and plan to make this beer some time next week!

I use aromatic in my o'fest and I like it. I also use some carapils. If you did both of these you'd be pretty close to my o'fest recipe except you'd be replacing my munich with vienna which I think wouldn't be bad at all. eta: my o'fest was a big hit this year - keg was killed in about an hour.

Edited by StudsTerkel, 21 October 2011 - 06:47 AM.

[shaggaroo]

I use aromatic in my o'fest and I like it. I also use some carapils. If you did both of these you'd be pretty close to my o'fest recipe except you'd be replacing my munich with vienna which I think wouldn't be bad at all. eta: my o'fest was a big hit this year - keg was killed in about an hour.

curious as to your hit recipe if you don't mind sharing

[positiveContact]

8lbs munich3lbs pilsen0.5lbs carapils0.25lbs aromatic mash at 153F 1oz Hallertau FWH0.4oz Magnum at 60 min So I guess I used more Munich than I remembered eta: oh yeah fermented this on 2308

Edited by StudsTerkel, 23 October 2011 - 01:41 PM.

[shaggaroo]

cool, thanks!

[cavman]

8lbs munich 3lbs pilsen 0.5lbs carapils 0.25lbs aromatic mash at 153F 1oz Hallertau FWH 0.4oz Magnum at 60 min So I guess I used more Munich than I remembered eta: oh yeah fermented this on 2308

I can say this was a fine beer, malty but crisp with a nice hop presence.

[positiveContact]

I can say this was a fine beer, malty but crisp with a nice hop presence.

I attribute some of the crispness to using some gypsum which goes against what I think a lot of people recommend.

[Big Nake]

I attribute some of the crispness to using some gypsum which goes against what I think a lot of people recommend.

That's a tough one because you know you want the calcium from the gypsum so the question is whether or not sulfates are acceptable or necessary in a Festbier. Some would say that a beer like that would benefit from calcium and chlorides but maybe not sulfates. Here's a weird one... I have been experimenting with water makeup for my lighter-colored beers but I made a British Blonde awhile back and I thought... This is light-colored but it's an ale and a British ale at that so I'm using 100% filtered tap water and I'm using CaCl and gypsum in the mash... You know what? This beer came out very balanced, smooth, clear and delicious. There was still 138ppm of bicarbonate in there but it came out smoothly. I started wondering if it had been pilsner malt, noble hops and lager yeast used at 50° if it would've come out the same and I assume it would. But you wouldn't necessarily put gypsum (about 2g in the mash) in a pilsner, would you? The standard thinking is that sulfates don't belong in a beer like that.

[positiveContact]

I specifically put gypsum in for the sulfates (note that I have pretty soft water).

[shaggaroo]

I specifically put gypsum in for the sulfates (note that I have pretty soft water).

How much gypsum, or better yet, what level of sulfate did you shoot for? I ask, because my water is pretty soft too.

[Big Nake]

* Envies all of you bastages with soft water... [shakes fist at the sky] *

[positiveContact]

How much gypsum, or better yet, what level of sulfate did you shoot for? I ask, because my water is pretty soft too.

When I'm home I'll try to remember to check out what I did last time but I was specifically shooting for the right chloride/sulfate ratio.

[positiveContact]

Adjusted Mash Calcium (ppm) Magnesium (ppm) Alkalinity as CaCO3 Sodium (ppm) Chloride (ppm) Sulfate (ppm) (Effective Hardness) Residual Alkalinity as CaCO3 Est. SRM (Low) Est. SRM (High) Chloride to Sulfate Ratio (ppm) 86 3 77 29 49 76 63 14 6 11 Bitter




eta: I'll fix the formatting later....

Edited by StudsTerkel, 25 October 2011 - 04:25 AM.