69 replies to this topic

[positiveContact]

The chlorides are okay here but not the sulfates. Sulfates will add a spikier, crisper profile and the chlorides should lend a rounder, smoother profile. What is the temp of your basement now? Has it been cold up there? Studs... time to look on CL for the 4.4cf fridge that someone is getting rid of. Lager primary fridge!

down to 51-53F now. I can easily get by with a swamp bucket at those temps. warmer than normal winter this year - normally it's well below 50F at this point. right now I'm fighting the starter that didn't start well so I may have to delay for another week or so. I may be able to pull off a Monday brew though...

[positiveContact]

On these, I use CaCl and that's pretty much it for salt additions. I like to get the calcium up around 75ppm overall and I also have lactic acid nearby so if I take the pH of the mash and it's still high, I knock it down with about .5ml of lactic acid. I wouldn't bother with the acid malt unless it's all you have and you don't want to use lactic acid. A beer like this should have low bicarbonates and low sulfates. I had also heard that gypsum is not good in this style (again, sulfates) and I have also found that the Cl:SO4 ratio can be a bunch of nonsense at times. I have made a few gold beers with RO water where the ratio was 9+ and another one where it was over 20. I also use Best Malz as my go-to pilsner malt and I really like it. I'd use Durst Turbo Pils if I could find it but the Best Malz is very good. There is also a Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner which may be more authentic but I believe it's "less-modified" (if I can use that term) and has led many brewers to cloudy and grainy-tasting pilsners, me included. I would probably use the Best Malz for 75% of the grain bill and the rest either light Munich (~6L) or Vienna for the rest, Magnum and Saaz to about 30-35 IBUs (or higher if you wish... softer water can mute the hop presense) and use the Magnum at 60 and the Saaz at 15 and/or 10 and/or 5. Just use your filtered soft tap water and add about 4-5g of CaCl to the mash. If you think the beer will lack crispness, a small addition of gypsum or even calcium carbonate (like .5g to 1g) to the mash is probably acceptable. Cheers.

I like the idea of adding more munich - it means I make less of an adjustment to the water. I'm not convinced that using no gypsum is a good idea though. I think if I keep the chloride:sulfate ratio towards the malty side I'll be good. this is what I'm thinking...

httpss://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7Q8Z146uwgc/TvtKCvvZLtI/AAAAAAAALnQ/zCV5BLfHPF4/s912/mash2.jpg

[positiveContact]

damn - yet again i've got some really low FG beer! not sure what I'm doing - maybe my thermo is reading high and I'm mashing lower than I think...either way this thing is down to 1.006-1.007. hydro sample tastes fine to me.edit: correction - the hydro sample tastes pretty awesome for a hydro sample. this could be my new fav lager...

[cavman]

damn - yet again i've got some really low FG beer! not sure what I'm doing - maybe my thermo is reading high and I'm mashing lower than I think... either way this thing is down to 1.006-1.007. hydro sample tastes fine to me. edit: correction - the hydro sample tastes pretty awesome for a hydro sample. this could be my new fav lager...

That is a little low, but nothing wrong with a crisp pilsner. The hops should show nicely.

[positiveContact]

2L quick carbed sample seems to taste pretty good. could def use some lagering to smooth out though.

[positiveContact]

so this beer ended up pretty good. I'd have to look at my notes to see where I ended up recipe wise. I'm probably going to make it again soon but I think I'd like to up the hoppyness. Would whirlpooling some Czech saaz make sense or should I just up the amount of end of boil hops? Does anyone use a combination of saaz and hallertau in something like this? Just curious...

Edited by StudsTerkel, 05 December 2012 - 11:16 AM.

[MtnBrewer]

I think whirlpooling some hops would be great. You could even dry hop it. While Saaz is one of the defining characteristics of a CZ pilsner, I think any noble hops would make a good beer. I'd also include SG in that as in my opinion they are only a small step down from the true nobles.

[positiveContact]

I think whirlpooling some hops would be great. You could even dry hop it. While Saaz is one of the defining characteristics of a CZ pilsner, I think any noble hops would make a good beer. I'd also include SG in that as in my opinion they are only a small step down from the true nobles.

I have some styrian goldings. Maybe it's coincidence but the beers I've used any significant amount of them in taste a little weird to me. I do use them in some belgians but I think the other aspects of belgian beers masks this aspect of the hop. maybe it's all in my head though.

[MtnBrewer]

SG has a spicy note that I like, which I also find in Saaz and Tettnanger. The weird thing is that I don't get that from Fuggle hops grown elsewhere. UK Fuggle is more woody or earthy to me, some call it grassy but I don't get grass from it. ETA: I guess "weird" is a bit of an overstatement. It shouldn't be a surprise that plants grown in different locations would have different characteristics.

[positiveContact]

what's odd that is that I really like saaz.

[Brauer]

so this beer ended up pretty good. I'd have to look at my notes to see where I ended up recipe wise.

I'm probably going to make it again soon but I think I'd like to up the hoppyness. Would whirlpooling some Czech saaz make sense or should I just up the amount of end of boil hops?

Does anyone use a combination of saaz and hallertau in something like this? Just curious...

Are you talking about the hoppiness now, or the hoppiness when it was first ready?

I don't imagine there is much hop flavor left if you brewed it back in January, and I'm not sure there is much you can do to make the hop flavor last that long. I know that the Pilsner I made last January was pretty much a Helles by the time I finished it in May or June, but delicious when still fresh.

[positiveContact]

Are you talking about the hoppiness now, or the hoppiness when it was first ready?

I don't imagine there is much hop flavor left if you brewed it back in January, and I'm not sure there is much you can do to make the hop flavor last that long. I know that the Pilsner I made last January was pretty much a Helles by the time I finished it in May or June, but delicious when still fresh.

no - this beer was finished a long time ago. I'm talking about hop flavor after the initial lagering of 1-2 months.

[Big Nake]

I used the whirlpool addition in a Czech Pils where I used something like Tettnanger to bitter and then added some late boil Saaz and then an ounce as a whirlpool addition. That beer is currently in a keg. It made it to the taps but I realized that I screwed up the water (go figure) by adding gypsum in accordance with Martin's "yellow balanced" profile which was too much. So I boiled some water and added some CaCl and poured that into the keg. I did that about 2 weeks ago and I just tasted it again about 2-3 days ago and it has calmed down a little bit and the hop profile is very nice. I agree that any hop you like could be nice here... any Hallertau hop, Hersbrucker, Saaz, Tettnanger, Spalt. I like Styrian Goldings and often use them in English Bitters but they are grown in Slovenia (mostly) and are quite clean & fresh-tasting. I have 2278 up and running now and I'm making a few beers in this style featuring generous amounts of Vienna along with the Pilsner, noble hops and soft(er) water.

[positiveContact]

I think I just added calcium chloride to adjust my pH. I think I also put a little bit of munich and/or vienna in to make it so I didn't have to adjust the pH quite so much.

[Big Nake]

I think I just added calcium chloride to adjust my pH. I think I also put a little bit of munich and/or vienna in to make it so I didn't have to adjust the pH quite so much.

... And if I recall correctly, you have soft water so you're already halfway there. I think I like this style a little more than a German Pils because you can add a little Vienna, Munich or whatever... give it some depth and character. You could even add a small amount (2-4 ounces in 5 gallons) of Aromatic which may (or may not) give you the character of a decoction. Or would that be Melanoidin?

[positiveContact]

... And if I recall correctly, you have soft water so you're already halfway there. I think I like this style a little more than a German Pils because you can add a little Vienna, Munich or whatever... give it some depth and character. You could even add a small amount (2-4 ounces in 5 gallons) of Aromatic which may (or may not) give you the character of a decoction. Or would that be Melanoidin?

aromatic and melanoidin are pretty much the same thing I think. you'll notice earlier in this thread that some don't think they mimic decoction. having never done a decoction I have no way of knowing for sure.

[positiveContact]

so last time around I used pilsen, a little munich and carafoam. to adjust pH I used mostly calcium chloride and a little gypsum. I'm considering maybe just using calcium chloride this time around. and only enough to get my RA where I want and no more. calcium levels be damned!

[MtnBrewer]

so last time around I used pilsen, a little munich and carafoam. to adjust pH I used mostly calcium chloride and a little gypsum. I'm considering maybe just using calcium chloride this time around. and only enough to get my RA where I want and no more. calcium levels be damned!

That's what I do for Czech Pilsners. For German Pilsners I add some gypsum to give the hops some snap.

[positiveContact]

That's what I do for Czech Pilsners. For German Pilsners I add some gypsum to give the hops some snap.

do you note your calcium levels or do you just not care?

[MtnBrewer]

do you note your calcium levels or do you just not care?

I usually aim for at least 50-75 ppm but it can be higher sometimes. I use about 5g of gypsum plus a little CaCl2 in my German. I have to use one or the other in a completely pale beer for mash pH because my water only has about 17 ppm Ca in it untreated. That goes for strong Belgian goldens, tripels, maibocks, helleseseseses, etc.