26 replies to this topic

[beach]

*waits for Ken to brew this and report back*

I get that Ken, so I'll ^ Beach

[earthtone]

Hey Ken, just saw this! dunno if this helps but it popped into my head when reading the thread. I remembered seeing a thread for quick souring a beer - a framboise - over on the green board. Here's the link.What I was thinking is you could mini mash and sour a gallon or so of wort and then blend that into the boil of a 4 gallon batch. It is obviously untested and would take come fiddling (I would err on the side of too little) but it seems like it has some potential.

[djinkc]

The recipe looks good to me and I've been thinking about the same kind of thing also. I'd like a tart beer but don't want to bring any bugs into the brewery. How about some Sorachi Ace for late hops? I hear those have a lemon flavor and aroma profile.Beach*waits for Ken to brew this and report back*

I've never heard anything complimentary regarding Sorachi Ace.

[cj in j]

So nobody knows of a Belgian yeast that would do this and be "low on the character scale"... or are they all overly assertive?

We use White Labs 410 (I think it's Belgian Wit II, not sure if it's regularly available) for exactly the reason you wrote. It's low on the "Belgian-ness" but adds a pleasant character to beers. But, it might not give you what you're looking for. It sound more like you're after a clean sourness rather than a yeasty sourness.Fruit will also give the beer a tart, somewhat sour character, but it also adds other flavors and aromas that you might not want. Citrus fruit is especially good -- tangerines, lemons, sour oranges, even grapefruits will work.

[cavman]

We use White Labs 410 (I think it's Belgian Wit II, not sure if it's regularly available) for exactly the reason you wrote. It's low on the "Belgian-ness" but adds a pleasant character to beers. But, it might not give you what you're looking for. It sound more like you're after a clean sourness rather than a yeasty sourness.Fruit will also give the beer a tart, somewhat sour character, but it also adds other flavors and aromas that you might not want. Citrus fruit is especially good -- tangerines, lemons, sour oranges, even grapefruits will work.

Funny I was thinking that wlp400 is known for a slight tartness, never used it except for a wit wonder how it would do in a pils based recipe.

[DgNt]

After 25+ years of drinking beer and 12 years brewing beer, I realize that I like 'clean' beers. I generally don't care for beers with complex profiles, smoked beers, wood beers, ultra high ABV or IBU beers, etc. That said, I see a number of brewers who have been making sour beers like Berliner Weiss and many people making Saisons. I asked a question in response to another recent thread where I asked about a certain Belgian yeast whether I would like a beer fermented with this yeast (I forget the strain... maybe 3711) and the answer was NO. I believe MTN said, "if you like flavor in your beer, this yeast is not for you". Point taken. So are there any easy ways for someone to make a beer that was "slightly" sour and/or tart without using bugs or having the batch take a long time? I know 2565 can create a bit of tartness but I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of a Belgian yeast that has this character. But I don't want overly esterty, phenolic or complex/spicy. Thanks gang.

A few members of my club have made sour starters and inoculated their wort prior to the boil, the results have been excellent. Steps they have used (and I will someday) are:A few days before brewday mix about a quart of water, 2 TBS or so of base malt (uncrushed), and a couple tablespoons of sugar. Set this so it stays at about 100º (they use mason jars -lid loose so you don't blow up with heating pads/cooler). This will get real funky pretty soon; once the Ph drops there shouldn't be too much real nasty stuff able to live in it. It should be a clean sour smell... not appetizing but if it smells like vomit you may want to dump and try again.On brew day, mash as usual, run off and run to your kettle. Inoculate the wort in the kettle with the funk and let it sit for a few hours -to taste. I'm sure the culture will sour it a bit but the live bugs will work on your wort till you cook them in the boil. -Check your gravity before and after (if you are that concerned about a point or two), you may need to add a little DME to replace sugars used by the bugs. One of the really sour beers dropped like 8 pts pre-boil.The nice thing about this method is you can get an idea of the character of the sour before adding to your wort and can also adjust fairly easily. Since no bugs are alive after the boil and you didn't mash sour in your MT, you don't have to worry bout wrt cleaning/sanitation.Cheers!

[cj in j]

Funny I was thinking that wlp400 is known for a slight tartness, never used it except for a wit wonder how it would do in a pils based recipe.

Best way to find out is to . . . just try it!