26 replies to this topic

[DubbelEntendre]

I've been looking into upgrading my mash tun. I've been exploring the possibility of including a basic RIMS set up. I've read that benefits include better extraction efficiency and clearer wort. I haven't seen any evidence to back these claims up on the various internet sites where I have seen systems? I am thinking of just adding the recirculation at first and then adding a small heat exchanger to step up temperatures. Is this 2 phase system a good plan?

[3rd party JKor]

Well, you lose heat in the recirculation loop, so you need a heat exchanger if you're going to do a recirculation. I'm not crazy about the RIMS myself, but that may just be me.

[Stout_fan]

You have RIMS and HERMSLike JK said, you need to compensate for the heat lost.RIMS is just passing the wort over an electric heating element.HERMS requires a heat exchange loop and a second pump.My brewstand is set up for HERMS, which I consider superior. I've put off doing the upgrade and have been doing infusion for the last 4 years.With luck I can put off the conversion for another four.

[MolBasser]

I've always wondered about over compaction of the grain bed with these systems.They get used a lot, so it can't be that bad, but I would be in favor of an agitated mash and heated mash tun myself......BrewBasser

[HVB]

When I built mine I researched both. I decided on HERMS because I did not want the wort to pass over the heating element. I have a stand alone heat exchanger a single pump and single tier system. I agree with Stout_fan that a HERMS is a superior system.If you are going to add the recirculation portion it would make sense to me to add the heat exchanger at the same time.

[MolBasser]

With an agitated mash you have a far less chance of getting a stuck runnoff. With HERMS and RIMS you are essentially running off during the entire mash AND runoff so the bed is constantly being compacted.Of course, and agitated mash works a bit better when you have a mashtun and a lauter tun as separate vessels.My personal opinion is that a "crystal clear" runoff, while looking nice, is not really that necesary. My brewing professor even posited that vorlaufing was a waste of time, although I disagreed with him a bit there.BrewBasser

[3rd party JKor]

Having built and run both a RIMS and HERMS, I can say that the HRRMS is definitely superior.

[DubbelEntendre]

With an agitated mash you have a far less chance of getting a stuck runnoff. With HERMS and RIMS you are essentially running off during the entire mash AND runoff so the bed is constantly being compacted.Of course, and agitated mash works a bit better when you have a mashtun and a lauter tun as separate vessels.My personal opinion is that a "crystal clear" runoff, while looking nice, is not really that necesary. My brewing professor even posited that vorlaufing was a waste of time, although I disagreed with him a bit there.BrewBasser

This is where my hesitation comes in. I vorlauf to get the run off mostly clear, but if there are no clear advantages as far as flavor, long term stability, or final clarity of the beer are concerned, then it seems like a waste of time to employ any type of recirculating mash system.

[Thirsty]

I have my setup to be very basic, but since adding the HERMS my efficiency went up 8 points, and I can control ramped temps very easily. While my mash is first infused, I am heating up my sparge water, when it gets to 10 deg over my desired mash temp, then I switch the pump on. In my HLT I have an old 25' immersion chiller. The wort goes from the MT and gets pumped through the old IC now herms coil, and back to the top of the tun, passing an in-line thermometer to ensure proper reentry temp. I then kill the pump, crank the water to 180, repump, and I have my mash out at 168 reentry. When done, my sparge water is already perfect temp and ready to go. Maybe many have the same sort of setup, and I know some others can be much more intricate and precisely controlled, but this has allowed me to make much better consistant beer, controlling the mash temp exact, plus the other HERMS benefits, all by purchasing about $25 worth of equipt (plus a couple QDs) and using an old IC- couldnt be easier.

[HVB]

Maybe many have the same sort of setup, and I know some others can be much more intricate and precisely controlled, but this has allowed me to make much better consistant beer, controlling the mash temp exact, plus the other HERMS benefits, all by purchasing about $25 worth of equipt (plus a couple QDs) and using an old IC- couldnt be easier.

Mine cost a bit more but could not agree more.

[Zulu]

Having built and run both a RIMS and HERMS, I can say that the HRRMS is definitely superior.

Maybe as you are so clearly in one camp you can detail why you are so convinced so that others might learn?

[RommelMagic]

Having built and run both a RIMS and HERMS, I can say that the HRRMS is definitely superior.

So you've done HERMS and RIMS, so what is a HRRMS?

[djinkc]

I considered both RIMS and HERMS when I got bored with my setup. Decided on an EHERMS. I'm convinced that on my system it gives me a little better efficiency. Plus I can do a step mash if I choose, can ramp up to mashout temps (yeah it will squeak out a couple more points) and it eliminates a vorlauf. The advantage of a HERMS is you have your sparge water ready to go with one heating source. The downside with all electric is the ramp time it takes compared to a flame or steam jackets.

[3rd party JKor]

Maybe as you are so clearly in one camp you can detail why you are so convinced so that others might learn?

More efficient heating, easier temp ramps.

[djinkc]

Maybe as you are so clearly in one camp you can detail why you are so convinced so that others might learn?

My main concern was a concentrated heat source for a RIMS that potentially can produce some unwanted malliard reactions and/or caramelization. That's not saying you will get either with a RIMS, lots of people use them successfully. But, it almost impossible to have that happen with a HERMS.And some brewers that are much more accomplished than I am will probably say both are a waste of time. I'll disagree because it does give you a little more control over the whole process either way.

[RommelMagic]

I'm in the camp for a HERMS since whenever I heat (direct) my mash i get a damn good scorch. Now, by HERMS if I recall correctly, I will send my wort from the mash through a copper coil in my hot liquor to add heat to the mash. RIMS / HERMS, whichever, my plans are just that, whichever category it fits into. I thinks that's HERMS, right?

[3rd party JKor]

I'm in the camp for a HERMS since whenever I heat (direct) my mash i get a damn good scorch. Now, by HERMS if I recall correctly, I will send my wort from the mash through a copper coil in my hot liquor to add heat to the mash. RIMS / HERMS, whichever, my plans are just that, whichever category it fits into. I thinks that's HERMS, right?

No, that's HRRMS.