37 replies to this topic

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

I'm not sure how effective it would be either. Wood is pretty good insulation. It may be worth emailing the yeast co. to get their thoughts on fermenting the blend on the cool side.

Who's going to the first to post their electric thermo-controlled wooden barrel ?

[BlKtRe]

Who's going to the first to post their electric thermo-controlled wooden barrel ?

[EWW]

*nudges blktre*it wouldn't be that tough, and I'm sure you already have most the parts you need

[klickcue]

On the BW:The base yeast - PacMan or Chico will do fine at the house temperature. Though Lacto will reproduce faster at 90 to 105 dF, there is no race to get the BW done faster so the lower temperature won't be a big deal.Add some Brett L and you have a nice blend for a BW.

[EWW]

I just tapped a keg of Belgian single that I primaried with WLP500 and hit with some consecration dregs. After 5.5 mo this beer is really nice. I could see the wood notes from a barrel going real well with this combo.

[siouxbrewer]

On the BW:The base yeast - PacMan or Chico will do fine at the house temperature. Though Lacto will reproduce faster at 90 to 105 dF, there is no race to get the BW done faster so the lower temperature won't be a big deal.Add some Brett L and you have a nice blend for a BW.

The other option is chilling until we hit 100F, then pitching the lacto and allowing to come down to room temp over the next few days, then pitch the sacch strain. This could give the lacto a little head start.

[Genesee Ted]

Just picked up a few Templeton Rye and JD barrels from Boulevard. These barrels are seconds and were just dumped a few days ago with a beer Boulevard has done. There are no whiskey notes left in these barrels. So this shouldn't be an issue. Barrels are in great shape and smell wonderful. I'm looking for some ideas and twists on what to age in these. Of course these are going to be Wild Beer barrels. Were thinking for a first run in two of the barrels will be a Old World Porter and a Oid Bruin. If anyone has ever had the opportunity to sample New Glarus Old World Porter, then that is where our inspiration comes from. Does anyone have any other ideas on styles? They dont have to be a specified style by any means. It can have a fun twist of ingredients too. For example our current barrel is full of a BGS that used 1388 in primary then dosed with Brett B in the barrel. Something fun and exciting, but different.Lets have fun here!

No one has brought it up yet, so I thought that I would interject that Oud Bruins are made in stainless conicals in order to keep the bugs somewhat at bay by choking out their O2 that in a barrel would be readily available. I think it would be a stretch in the traditional sense to call it an Oud Bruin, since from the barrel it would be a lot more similar to Flanders Red. Either way, I am certainly not big on style guidelines, but from a practical flavor development perspective, the barrel would make it difficult to impossible to get where you would to be for a Bruin. Still would be effing awesome beer though.

Saboteur is a tasty beer, very much a hybrid sour style. I'm also liking the idea of a BW, although we'd have to brew it higher gravity I suppose, so it can hold up in the barrel. We're not looking to fit into any style guidelines here, so a 5% BW is a definite possibility. Saison with brett, how can you go wrong there. Good ideas folks

Again, I am not big on style, but the real beauty in BW is that it is brewed to a very low alcohol and consumed quite freshly. Not that you couldn't brew a bigger version, but the balance of the flavor profile and its cloud-like lightness would be sacrificed.I am in the early stages of planning for a gueze project, so immediately when I saw the multiple barrels, that is what I thought of. Stemming from that idea, is the beauty of the fact that no matter what you ferment in them, you have the opportunity to do all sorts of blending. Perhaps that could be your basis for recipe formulation. Three beers that could be the perfect menage a trois. If that is not what you are looking for, I really like the Petrus Aged Pale. I have been wanting to tackle something like that since the monster Flanders thread over on the GB.

[EWW]

I think it would be a stretch in the traditional sense to call it an Oud Bruin, since from the barrel it would be a lot more similar to Flanders Red.

that's only if you believe the hype that the two "styles" are actually different. History tends to suggest that Roddenbach is the only reason that the red subcategory was created in the first place. Bruins and reds are practically the same in my book and both would do well in a barrel project like this.

[Genesee Ted]

Trust me, I think that the idea of styles is kind of like trying to pigeonhole someone's spirituality into religion. It can help you get a grasp or understanding, but limits creativity. I agree that bruins and reds are practically the same, but if we go out of our way to reference a particular style, then as brewers, we should at least follow some basic tenets of style. If you make an Oud Bruin in a barrel, it is then a red. Strange, I know, but I didn't make this stuff up. It is splitting stupid hairs. Whatever it is called, I am sure it will be delicious.

[BlKtRe]

I understand what Doob is saying. Makes a valid point. But maybe I should of been more specific in my first post and said Style Like. There are plenty of wild beers brewed to style and they are tasty. There are also plenty of Style Like beers that are tasty as well. But I think EWW makes my point fairly well. Something different with a twist is what were looking for. Everybody makes a Flanders, Lambic, etc. We dont want to be like everybody else. I think creativity here would be fun.Thanks for the history lesson Doob. And as this conversation went on it was a good idea to point out the difference.

[Genesee Ted]

I just called my barrel guy, and I may have 3 or 4 white wine barrels coming my way shortly. Thanks for the inspiration.

[BlKtRe]

I just called my barrel guy, and I may have 3 or 4 white wine barrels coming my way shortly. Thanks for the inspiration.

Gotta love inspiration. Now to get them full and deal with the cold weather.

[EWW]

Trust me, I think that the idea of styles is kind of like trying to pigeonhole someone's spirituality into religion. It can help you get a grasp or understanding, but limits creativity. I agree that bruins and reds are practically the same, but if we go out of our way to reference a particular style, then as brewers, we should at least follow some basic tenets of style. If you make an Oud Bruin in a barrel, it is then a red. Strange, I know, but I didn't make this stuff up. It is splitting stupid hairs. Whatever it is called, I am sure it will be delicious.

Bruins and reds both used to be made in barrels....same style in my bookbut I understand what you are saying

[Genesee Ted]

What about using a primary strain that would work in harmony with the cool weather? Start with 1007 or 2112 for primary and then pitch the bugs later. That way you won't have to make a post about your sweet digital barrel temp control jacket. Most of the character that is going to drive the flavor of the final product is based on the bugs and oak working together, so primary yeast could be almost anything, right?

[BlKtRe]

What about using a primary strain that would work in harmony with the cool weather? Start with 1007 or 2112 for primary and then pitch the bugs later. That way you won't have to make a post about your sweet digital barrel temp control jacket. Most of the character that is going to drive the flavor of the final product is based on the bugs and oak working together, so primary yeast could be almost anything, right?

Everything Ive read is to pitch bugs first to have a chance at getting to the sour level desired. As for the BW, Ive been thinking between what Klickcue said about using Brett L and Siouxbrewer noted about pitching Lacto into hot wort. It wont stay hot for very long and Im not sure it could have an effect.Also the possibility of using Acidulated Malt. I'm wondering if the cool weather protocol should go something like this...Acidulated Malt in the mash pushing 8% of the grist.Pitch Lacto 90*.Wait 2-3 days pitch Sac.Wait a undetermined amount of time and pitch Brett L.Comments?

[Genesee Ted]

I know that when I did my Flanders, I used a culture that I grabbed off of a local micro. It is a British strain. I did a 20 gal "starter" pitched exclusively with Roselare and then a 50 gal batch pitched with the British. When primary was done, they were blended in the barrel. Sour stuff first... No one will taste this beer and think that the bugs did not have a foothold or enough to work with. Just sayin' With the bugs, I am curious to the use of acidulated? Does it help with the mash?

[klickcue]

Everything Ive read is to pitch bugs first to have a chance at getting to the sour level desired. As for the BW, Ive been thinking between what Klickcue said about using Brett L and Siouxbrewer noted about pitching Lacto into hot wort. It wont stay hot for very long and Im not sure it could have an effect.Also the possibility of using Acidulated Malt. I'm wondering if the cool weather protocol should go something like this...Acidulated Malt in the mash pushing 8% of the grist.Pitch Lacto 90*.Wait 2-3 days pitch Sac.Wait a undetermined amount of time and pitch Brett L.Comments?

I agree with Siouxbrewer.I pitch the Lacto early while the wort is cooling down and then the Sacc later. I use 3 parts Lacto to 1 part Sacc. The Brett can be included at any time. The more O2 the Brett gets as in a barrel, the more acetic acid will be produced.To give an idea of Lacto and heat; I can convert 1 gallon of milk in 3 hours at 115 dF. At room temperature to the same consistency is about 32 hours. In the the refrig, it may take days which is how I extend my Lacto conversion between feedings.If a no boil is used, extra Lacto and bugs will be carried over from the mash. The Lacto will love the warm temperatures of the mash. Mash at 149 dF for 90 minutes. dump, cool to 115 dF and then Lacto. Delicious

[klickcue]

Trust me, I think that the idea of styles is kind of like trying to pigeonhole someone's spirituality into religion. It can help you get a grasp or understanding, but limits creativity. I agree that bruins and reds are practically the same, but if we go out of our way to reference a particular style, then as brewers, we should at least follow some basic tenets of style. If you make an Oud Bruin in a barrel, it is then a red. Strange, I know, but I didn't make this stuff up. It is splitting stupid hairs. Whatever it is called, I am sure it will be delicious.

I agree. To me a Red and a Bruin are pretty much the same, Western Flanders. I do not enjoy, very much vinegar flavor. I lean more towards the Eastern Flanders of little acetic acid and more Brett aroma without the extra O2 for acetic acid.Now on the reverse side, I am going to try and create a Brown Ale in a barrel (50 gallons) with WLP510 as primary, with Brett B., Brett C., and Brett L. as secondary. I am still on the flip side as to whether I want to add Lacto. I do enjoy Lacto for it's tart flavor.I have several bugs so I may still change my mind