79 replies to this topic

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Not to re-start the usual argument, but it's highly debatable whether there is any positive benefit to decoction, so I don't worry about that much. Boiling longer will probably make the wort a bit darker, implying that there is more melanoidin formation, and might extract more polyphenols from the husks, but positive flavor contributions haven't held up well in properly-controlled, blinded, taste testings. In that case, I doubt that there would be a detectable flavor difference between a long boil and a short boil that would hold up to blind tasting. Not to say that there aren't numerous brewers who believe that they do get flavor improvement with decoction, and I like the beers that I decoct, but I don't decoct with the expectation of making a better beer. To me, a decoction is what it was originally intended as: a way to raise the temperature of the mash. My method makes it a relatively easy and non-time consuming for me to raise the temperature of the mash, which was my goal. Short (or long) decoctions can improve mash efficiency, though, depending on your system.

I guess my question then is - what is the purpose of a multi-step mash?

[Malzig]

I guess my question then is - what is the purpose of a multi-step mash?

Depending on the steps you choose, a multi-step mash can have a number of benefits including improved mash efficiency, faster starch conversion, improved beer clarity, easier lautering with grains high in beta-glucans, flavor changes in Weissbier and control over sweetness and body. As an example, I use a step-mash for my Alts to get a dry finish with some residual body. I've had other brewers tell me that I could get the same results with a single-step mash, but,on my system, I've never had success getting the finish I want without doing separates beta and alpha rests.

[davelew]

so it this only possible if you have a mash tun sitting on a burner? or is this a decoction where you pull out some of the mash, heat it, and then put it back into the tun? this would probably be a great beer to try a decoction on.

I did as a three-step infusion mash: 13 pounds of grain mixed with 10 quarts of 146F strike water for 30 minutes add 3.5 quarts of boiling water to bring the mixture to 140F for 30 minutes add 6 quarts of boiling water to bring the mixture to 158F for 30 minutes Sparge with 12 quarts of 170F water It wasn't an optimal ratio of strike water to sparge water (roughly 60% infusion and 40% sparge water instead of 50-50), but it ended up working out OK, and I was worried about going much thicker than 0.8 qts/lb for the protein rest or thinner than 1.5 qts/lb for the alpha amylase rest. My efficiency was 74%, which is pretty normal for me, and I hit the low end of the style for Maibock, with around 5.5 gallons of 1.065 wort after the boil.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I think I've been sufficiently convinced that decoction probably isn't for me. Probably just go with a single infusion and toss in a bit of aromatic. The thing that weirds me out a little is that this maibock is quickly approaching my O'fest recipe. What's the deal???

[MtnBrewer]

I think I've been sufficiently convinced that decoction probably isn't for me. Probably just go with a single infusion and toss in a bit of aromatic. The thing that weirds me out a little is that this maibock is quickly approaching my O'fest recipe. What's the deal???

Can you post the recipe you have in mind?

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Can you post the recipe you have in mind?

I don't have it exactly nailed down but it was basically going to just be a combo of munich, vienna and pils with just a touch of aromatic. Hopped up with magnum and hallertau MF for flavor/aroma. fermented on 2308. only difference between this and my o'fest is that the o'fest doesn't currently have vienna and it also has some carapils. I will also probably hop the maibock up slightly more and it will be a little bit higher OG.

[MtnBrewer]

I'd leave out two of the three: vienna, munich & aromatic. I wouldn't hesitate to throw in some 10L crystal too.

[MtnBrewer]

Let me expand on that answer a little. Vienna, Munich and melanoidin (aromatic) are three points on the same continuum. They are all more malty than pilsner and pale malts. Vienna has a smooth maltiness, Munich is stronger and similar to biscuit only sweeter and melanoidin is the most intense with an almost sharp toasted flavor. If you were only going to use one of the three, you'd probably use a good bit of Vienna, less Munich (maybe 1/4-1/2 as much) and less still melanoidin (~5% of the grist). So the flavors would be about equal in terms of intensity. The difference would be the intrinsic flavor profile of each malt. In a maibock, I personally prefer the milder Vienna malt. If you're not using any crystal, then the Vienna could be 25-50% of the grist.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

In a maibock, I personally prefer the milder Vienna malt. If you're not using any crystal, then the Vienna could be 25-50% of the grist.

and the rest would be pils?

[Malzig]

and the rest would be pils?

Aren't Maibocks usually mostly Pilsner Malt and Oktoberfests mostly Munich Malt. I guess I thought of that (and the ~6% ABV of an Oktoberfest and the ~7% ABV of a Maibock) as a primary difference.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Aren't Maibocks usually mostly Pilsner Malt and Oktoberfests mostly Munich Malt. I guess I thought of that (and the ~6% ABV of an Oktoberfest and the ~7% ABV of a Maibock) as a primary difference.

def on the ABV diff. I'm not sure on the malts though so that's why I'm asking.

[MtnBrewer]

and the rest would be pils?

Yes, maibocks are pale, not dark like other bocks.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Yes, maibocks are pale, not dark like other bocks.

so something like 1/2 vienna and 1/2 pils could work. that would def make it diff than my o'fest. probably have to do a 90min boil on that to avoid DMS.

[cavman]

so something like 1/2 vienna and 1/2 pils could work. that would def make it diff than my o'fest. probably have to do a 90min boil on that to avoid DMS.

I would say more like 75% Pils and 25% Vienna, you could also add a small maybe around 1# of Munich for added maltiness.

[MtnBrewer]

I think anywhere between 25% and 50% Vienna would be fine. Anybody look at Jamil's recipe? His are always worth a look for a starting point.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I think anywhere between 25% and 50% Vienna would be fine. Anybody look at Jamil's recipe? His are always worth a look for a starting point.

I think 25% vienna and then pils would put this at lightest beer I've ever brewed. I think I will push it up a little higher since I've got the vienna and I'm not afraid to use it. I don't have my spreadsheet in front of me but I'll be interested what kind of SRM this thing will likely be.

[cavman]

I think 25% vienna and then pils would put this at lightest beer I've ever brewed. I think I will push it up a little higher since I've got the vienna and I'm not afraid to use it. I don't have my spreadsheet in front of me but I'll be interested what kind of SRM this thing will likely be.

SRM would be around 5

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

SRM would be around 5

yeah - I'll probably push the vienna up until I hit the 6-8 area. Not sure yet...

[cavman]

yeah - I'll probably push the vienna up until I hit the 6-8 area. Not sure yet...

That's where just a small amount of Munich would help as well as adding maltiness.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

That's where just a small amount of Munich would help as well as adding maltiness.

seems like in order to keep the vienna under 40% I need to use about 2lbs of munich (all I have is light munich, 6-7 SRM).