44 replies to this topic

[cavman]

Learn what hop work together for your desired profile; then hopburst, aroma rest and dry hop. The aroma rest adds additional bitterness that works out as the beer ages. It takes longer but worth the wait if done right.

[No Party JKor]

I guess I could say I've had a similar problem. The recent APA I made based on Tasty McDole's recipe is the first APA/IPA I've made that really had the hop aroma/flavor that I wanted. Part of the problem is I don't really have a lot of batches under my belt where I was really going to for a hop bomb and I think I solved most of my problems just by increasing the amount of hops, but I've also changed some things with my process that I think have made it possible. The #1 thing is the whirlpool IC. I measured my cooling temp profile on my last batch and I'm getting from boil to 140* in 3 minutes and 100* in 7 minutes. Before that I was using a CFC right from the kettle to the fermenter and a large portion of the wort was at high temp for >10 minutes.Like Ken was saying, I only use pellet hops and keep them in the freezer until I use them. I'm working through a big order of hops from the '08 crop that I bought last May. They don't have the ultra fresh aroma of brand new hops, but the aroma is still very good IMO, even after two years. Also, I got them from HopsDirect, so I'm confident that they were stored properly before I got them. I do add more to compensate for losses in AA and aroma/flavor compounds. I use the ProMash loss calculator for alpha loss in the bittering additions. For flavor and aroma additions I increase the addition more based on my own intuition, usually about 1.25-1.5x what the recipe lists, but for beers that are meant to have bigger hop flavor/aroma I may go to 2x.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

for me it's all about dry hopping. if I don't dry hop I can't get big hop aroma.

[MolBasser]

Like Ken was saying, I only use pellet hops and keep them in the freezer until I use them. I'm working through a big order of hops from the '08 crop that I bought last May. They don't have the ultra fresh aroma of brand new hops, but the aroma is still very good IMO, even after two years.

I would never keep hops more than a year, as a rule.No matter how they are stored.MolBasser

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I would never keep hops more than a year, as a rule.No matter how they are stored.MolBasser

gah - I've been doing it. Mainly with bittering hops though.

[No Party JKor]

I would never keep hops more than a year, as a rule.No matter how they are stored.MolBasser

I didn't plan it that way, but I didn't brew as much as I was expecting in '09. I can tell they've gone down hill a little, but only in beers that have heavy late hops. I doubt most people who aren't trained could tell unless I told them. In the future I'm going to be more careful about when and how much hops I order at a time so I can be pretty sure that I don't need to use previous years harvest.

[davelew]

I have tried all but hopback, torpedoing, and randalling, but don't even know what torpedoing is, so maybe I did.

A torpedo is a variation on dry-hopping that Sierra Nevada has developed. Basically, they fill a tube with hops, and pump the beer through that tube, constantly recirculating the beer through the hops. It's sort of like a hopback for dry-hopping, only with constant recirculation instead of a one-time pass through the hopback.

[Genesee Ted]

That torpedo is a cool idea. I think that you could probably use on if you transfer with CO2 between primary and secondary, and then again on the way to packaging. Kind of impractical to constantly recirculate through it at this scale. As far as hop combos, I am going for big citrus. On a recent batch of saison IIPA, I used Citra, Zeus, and Simcoe. I used FWH of 1 oz Citra and 1 oz Zeus, and a small bittering addition (1 oz blended) at 90 min, with the rest(5 oz) being blended and hopbursted. 10 gallon batch. I have started to shy away from dry hopping because of the general PITA that the soaked hops become when it comes to getting them out and cleaning etc., but I am not opposed to the idea. There are many limitations that are frustrating to me brewing at this scale and on this budget (read: both small). I should really sink a few hundred into my rig, but it is a bit hard to justify at this point.

[No Party JKor]

If I could get roughly the same aroma out of torpedoing for one hour as I would from dry hopping for a week, I'd be done dry hopping. Is it possible?

[davelew]

If I could get roughly the same aroma out of torpedoing for one hour as I would from dry hopping for a week, I'd be done dry hopping. Is it possible?

I keep thinking about this. I have a march pump, some barbed-to-NPT adapters, and I could probably find some pipe...

[Mya]

I keep thinking about this. I have a march pump, some barbed-to-NPT adapters, and I could probably find some pipe...

how would you go about ensuring no oxygen contact? I had a brainstorm involving a tiny submersible pump and a corney keg but havn't even though it anywhere near all the way through

[MolBasser]

Yes. Oxygen pick up is a huge concern with the torpedo. One we worry about constantly.You need to engineer a way to purge your torpedo with CO2 to get rid of the oxygen. Some way to hook it up to your CO2 tank.I would LOVE for a homebrew engineer to post up a home made torpedo. That would be awesome.Old hops, btw, will give you cheesey notes in your beer.I'm permanantly up for homebrewing now at some level as I have been so well trained by SNBC to pick up flaws..... Sometimes it is annoying.MolBasser

[Mya]

Yes. Oxygen pick up is a huge concern with the torpedo. One we worry about constantly.You need to engineer a way to purge your torpedo with CO2 to get rid of the oxygen. Some way to hook it up to your CO2 tank.I would LOVE for a homebrew engineer to post up a home made torpedo. That would be awesome.Old hops, btw, will give you cheesey notes in your beer.I'm permanantly up for homebrewing now at some level as I have been so well trained by SNBC to pick up flaws..... Sometimes it is annoying.MolBasser

you should taste this crap i just bought Hook and Ladder golden Ale, barf

[lowendfrequency]

I would LOVE for a homebrew engineer to post up a home made torpedo. That would be awesome.

I've been milling around an idea that achieves a similar effect to a torpedo, but occurs within the keg or secondary vessel. Basically, think of a french press in a keg. It's the same concept as punching the cap on a fermenting red wine. Keep the goods moving and in constant contact with the liquid.

[No Party JKor]

Yes. Oxygen pick up is a huge concern with the torpedo. One we worry about constantly.You need to engineer a way to purge your torpedo with CO2 to get rid of the oxygen. Some way to hook it up to your CO2 tank.I would LOVE for a homebrew engineer to post up a home made torpedo. That would be awesome.Old hops, btw, will give you cheesey notes in your beer.I'm permanantly effed up for homebrewing now at some level as I have been so well trained by SNBC to pick up flaws..... Sometimes it is annoying.MolBasser

If it really will extract the aroma compounds in a short period of time, I'd probably build one.

[denny]

Ooooooh I smell insider BA info. Are you able to provide any more info?

All I can say is that a well known author of brewing books is working on a book about hops.

[EWW]

All I can say is that a well known author of brewing books is working on a book about hops.

I thought that may be the case. Are you able to at least give a rough ETA?

[MolBasser]

If it really will extract the aroma compounds in a short period of time, I'd probably build one.

It is much faster than traditional dry hopping.I'll see what sort of data that I can share publicly on the subject.MolBasser

[davelew]

I've had beer served through a Randall, and a single pass seemed to add a lot of hop aroma. I believe that flowing the beer past the hops (as opposed to letting the beer sit unmoving on the hops) makes a huge difference in the hop compound extraction.I've also thought about a hybrid system, flowing the beer through a Randall while bottling it, but I'm not sure how to avoid excessive oxidation when doing this-- I don't really trust purging with CO2 to get the oxygen out of the nooks and crannies of the hops.

[japh]

I have tried all but hopback, torpedoing, and randalling, but don't even know what torpedoing is, so maybe I did. I have also gone the route of using as much as 12 oz of various high alpha hops in an effort to get all the aroma an flavor out, but with only moderate success. I remember when the term "hopburst" was coined and I had already been trying that, and continue to do so. Some of those techniques I really dig, but they don't seem to make the hops really pop. I use an immersion chiller.

High Alpha Hops tend to not have as much aroma and flavor, FWIU.I like Centennial as a bittering hop, combined with a Cascade-Amarillo combo for flavor and aroma in my IPAs.