44 replies to this topic

[Genesee Ted]

The reason I got off the deep end into homebrewing was the old hand bottled DFH 90 min 750s. Back in the day, I used to buy as many a week as my paycheck would allow and it inspired me into the brewer and person I am today in many respects. For years I tried to get that sort of hop character out of my beer. But it got to be pretty expensive and I realized the Belgian stuff was incredibly complex, yet without the added cost of insane amounts of hops (sometimes). I have never had much luck with hoppy beers. At least that I can remember. They come out tasty, but never the big fresh hop flavors that I have been searching for. I have tried as many hopping techniques as there are Frank Zappa albums and recipes galore. Am I not getting dank enough hops? Apparently it is not as easy as putting a lot of hops in.I have had some decent results, but perhaps not as huge as I would like. We need a book like BLAM all about hoppy American beer.

[DaBearSox]

Well, here we go again....Do you happen to know your water profile?

[Fatman]

The reason I got off the deep end into homebrewing was the old hand bottled DFH 90 min 750s. Back in the day, I used to buy as many a week as my paycheck would allow and it inspired me into the brewer and person I am today in many respects. For years I tried to get that sort of hop character out of my beer. But it got to be pretty expensive and I realized the Belgian stuff was incredibly complex, yet without the added cost of insane amounts of hops (sometimes). I have never had much luck with hoppy beers. At least that I can remember. They come out tasty, but never the big fresh hop flavors that I have been searching for. I have tried as many hopping techniques as there are Frank Zappa albums and recipes galore. Am I not getting dank enough hops? Apparently it is not as easy as putting a lot of hops in.I have had some decent results, but perhaps not as huge as I would like. We need a book like BLAM all about hoppy American beer.

I can get a nicely bittered beer, but have problems getting big hop aromas. My number one suspect is my bulk, vacuum sealed, freezered leaf hops. They don't seem to have that big nose punch aroma before they go in, so how could they impart alot of aroma?I'm also suspicous of leaf vs. pellets.

[DaBearSox]

I can get a nicely bittered beer, but have problems getting big hop aromas. My number one suspect is my bulk, vacuum sealed, freezered leaf hops. They don't seem to have that big nose punch aroma before they go in, so how could they impart alot of aroma?I'm also suspicous of leaf vs. pellets.

Have you tried hop bursting?

[albertv05]

Yo dude. Vinne Cilurzo has a good power point presentation somewhere with some great tips for brewing hoppy beers. I know your skills are more than solid, but have you tried late hopping and using more resinous hops and hop blending? But you are right, there should be a book like BLAM on hops. Also, have you gotten into your water at all? Calcium to Sulfate ratio is important to get those flavors you're looking for.Cheers,Alan

[MtnBrewer]

We need a book like BLAM all about hoppy American beer.

That's a damn good idea.Tell us some of the things you've tried unsuccessfully to save us the trouble of suggesting those things. :frank:Have you tried hopbursting? That seems to me like the one sure fire way to get lots of hop character in your beer. Also, it could be that you're using hop varieties that don't go well together. The problem could be in the water too. Adding sulfates (gypsum) sharpens up the hop bitterness a lot. Attenuation could be an issue. Beers that finish sweet tend to mask some of the hops. In a similar vein, if your beers turn out malty, that could hide some hop character too.

[North]

what does your recipe look like?

[denny]

We need a book like BLAM all about hoppy American beer.

I think you're gonna get your wish if you're patient.....

[Big Nake]

I agree that some gypsum creates a "sharper" profile. That along with a bunch of late additions and dry hopping should be good. The best hop aromas I have gotten come from dry hopping with good, fresh pellets. I know that sounds weird because many people like to dry hop with whole/leaf. Aside from that, try adding a muslin bag filled with an ounce or 2 of good, fresh pellets to your serving keg. Man, if you can't good some good hop aroma that way... I give up. Cheers.

[davelew]

What kind of recipes do you use? There was a guest on a brewing network episode about 6 months ago who said that crystal malt and hops don't mix, and you should never used crystal malt in a hop-forward beer. I don't agree with this, but it is one point of view.What hop techniques do you use? Mash-hopping, FWHing, continual hopping, hopback, dry-hopping, torpedoing, randalling? How do you chill your wort? Is there any chance of HSA degrading hop character? Where do you get your hops and how were they stored?

[Jimvy]

As others have indicated, the key to getting big hop flavor and aromas are late hops and dry hopping. With that said, I was having some issues with a lot of my hoppy beers last year and I isolated it to the leaf hops I was using for dry hop. I probably lost 4-5 10g batches due to those leaf not being up to snuff. Since then, I've changed my process a bit and gone to all pellet for dry hopping. You have to use a bit more hop to get to the same level, but it's more consistent.

[Genesee Ted]

What kind of recipes do you use? There was a guest on a brewing network episode about 6 months ago who said that crystal malt and hops don't mix, and you should never used crystal malt in a hop-forward beer. I don't agree with this, but it is one point of view.What hop techniques do you use? Mash-hopping, FWHing, continual hopping, hopback, dry-hopping, torpedoing, randalling? How do you chill your wort? Is there any chance of HSA degrading hop character? Where do you get your hops and how were they stored?

I have tried all but hopback, torpedoing, and randalling, but don't even know what torpedoing is, so maybe I did. I have also gone the route of using as much as 12 oz of various high alpha hops in an effort to get all the aroma an flavor out, but with only moderate success. I remember when the term "hopburst" was coined and I had already been trying that, and continue to do so. Some of those techniques I really dig, but they don't seem to make the hops really pop. I use an immersion chiller. I have used all sorts of recipes and I don't really use crystal malt at all. Also, I usually get my beer pretty dry. Water profile may be a big thing. It seems to be great for brewing, but perhaps I need to make adjustments.I would be interested in that link to Vinnie's presentation.I use whole hops exclusively because of my bazooka t screen. It clogs from pellets. I suspect the hops I get are fine for low hop character beer, but not for hop bombs.

[albertv05]

Chilling your wort down fast is critical to retaining a good hop characteristic. The quicker the better. You could try creating a whirlpool with your immersion chiller if you don't already. I gave up on mine a while ago, though a good dependable piece of equipment, and went with a plate chiller just to speed things up. Rochester water is good for brewing, but let's look at the Ca : S04 ratios and see what we can do. I may have a water report here somewhere, we're probably on the same H20. I'm ridiculously anal and build my profile from scratch for all of my beers. Over the top yes; but it works for me.I'll also see if I can't location that power point presentation. It was pretty basic but good to hear from someone like Vinnie.Cheers,Alan

[albertv05]

Chilling your wort down fast is critical to retaining a good hop characteristic. The quicker the better. You could try creating a whirlpool with your immersion chiller if you don't already. I gave up on mine a while ago, though a good dependable piece of equipment, and went with a plate chiller just to speed things up. Rochester water is good for brewing, but let's look at the Ca : S04 ratios and see what we can do. I may have a water report here somewhere, we're probably on the same H20. I'm ridiculously anal and build my profile from scratch for all of my beers. Over the top yes; but it works for me.I'll also see if I can't location that power point presentation. It was pretty basic but good to hear from someone like Vinnie.Cheers,Alan

Not the presentation but looks good...https://docs.google....QeBXPJa6iESTorQI'll keep looking.

[MolBasser]

Water matters, but not that much with hops.Very late additions and a ton of dry hopping will really help with the hop character.Even more critical is the choice of hops. What character are you looking for? Without that information, hop recommendations and there use is pretty useless.Fresh hops are even more critical. Old hops suck. And they suck bad. How you store your hops is very critical.MolBasser

[Big Nake]

Fresh hops are even more critical. Old hops suck. And they suck bad. How you store your hops is very critical.

This is one reason I like pellets. I'll apologize in advance to anyone who is opposed to pellets... they just work well for me, they store easier, better and longer. There have been times when I needed a certain hop and it was only available in leaf form. In many cases, the hops seemed dry, brownish and had an old-sock aroma. When I buy good hop pellets in an oxygen-purged foil bag, the hops always look green, vibrant, fresh and aromatic. I freeze my hops until I need them, then I take them out of the freezer and use them that day. If I have leftover hops for some reason, I seal them back up and use them quickly. Cheers.

[MolBasser]

This is one reason I like pellets. I'll apologize in advance to anyone who is opposed to pellets... they just work well for me, they store easier, better and longer. There have been times when I needed a certain hop and it was only available in leaf form. In many cases, the hops seemed dry, brownish and had an old-sock aroma. When I buy good hop pellets in an oxygen-purged foil bag, the hops always look green, vibrant, fresh and aromatic. I freeze my hops until I need them, then I take them out of the freezer and use them that day. If I have leftover hops for some reason, I seal them back up and use them quickly. Cheers.

This.For homebrewers, pellets are the best option in my opinion. They are generally treated well untill you get them at the shop, and they resist bad treatment better.Bad part is you will get a little grassy notes out of them from being beaten in the hammer mill.Good part is that the storage characteristics outweigh that negative for the homebrewer.If I wasn't surrounded with hundreds of pounds of whole leaf hops every day, I would brew at home with pellets. I brewed all of my beer before I worked for SNBC with pellets, and I like pellets. Low negative, to high positive for homebrewers.MolBasser

[EWW]

I think you're gonna get your wish if you're patient.....

Ooooooh I smell insider BA info. Are you able to provide any more info?

[MolBasser]

Edit:You should dry hop with fresh whole hops. I don't like dry hopping with pellets, but would dry hop with fresh pellets before I would use old whole hops.MolBasser

[orudis]

I'd definitely move to pellets.