84 replies to this topic

[BrewerGeorge]

I just had a thought...What if your pH is okay and you simply have more chill haze because the lighter malts are higher in protein to start with? You using pilsner for these? Pilsner is generally higher in protein than Marris Otter or generic American 2-row. Six-row is higher still.

[Big Nake]

Zym: I think it was $19 and change for a box of 100 from SanitationTools.com.Chris: Thanks for that... Calcium Chloride it is.George: Yes, pilsner malt generally. I will also use 2-row in a beer like this and I have not compared the clarity of a pilsner version to the clarity of a 2-row version. Good idea though. All of the latest versions have been pilsner and I have 2 more fermenting now... maybe I'll do a 2-row version next to see what's what.ET: Thanks Bud, that sounds encouraging. The next one of these to go from secondary to keg is going to go to the keg & get chilled overnight and then get a gel solution and then get carbed. I'll also try these ColorPhast strips on my mash the next time I make a lighter colored beer. Thanks again guys. Good stuff.

[Big Nake]

Guys: the ColorpHast strips I ordered have arrived. Tomorrow I am going to make an "English Summer Ale" with UK Pale Malt, some Torrified wheat, a small amount of Vienna and then Kent & Styrian Golding hops and 1028. The SRM will be about 4 so this should be a good test for the pH. I have my recipe and my water additions ready to go. Are there any special tricks or tips with these strips? It sounds like you just dunk it quickly and read it. The box says Immerse in weakly buffered solutions until there is no further colour change (1-10 mins). I assume that waiting the 10 minutes is not necessary though. Thoughts? Cheers guys.

[BlKtRe]

The strips will change color within seconds. Just push them into the mash or water and you will get a immediate reading.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I kegged the cream ale I made a couple weeks ago last night. It wasn't clear and I had not cold conditioned it at all. Its the lightest colored beer I have made yet. Most of the other ones were amber. I wanted to cold condition and add some gelatin, but I'm gonna try and drink it all with my friends on friday when we watch world cup. I figured hazy was fine so long as it tastes good.Cheers,Rich

Edited by rcemech, 08 June 2010 - 11:17 AM.

[davelew]

Guys: the ColorpHast strips I ordered have arrived. Tomorrow I am going to make an "English Summer Ale" with UK Pale Malt, some Torrified wheat, a small amount of Vienna and then Kent & Styrian Golding hops and 1028. The SRM will be about 4 so this should be a good test for the pH. I have my recipe and my water additions ready to go. Are there any special tricks or tips with these strips? It sounds like you just dunk it quickly and read it. The box says Immerse in weakly buffered solutions until there is no further colour change (1-10 mins). I assume that waiting the 10 minutes is not necessary though. Thoughts? Cheers guys.

I take a sample out of my mash and let it cool to room temperature. Usually it's just a couple drops of the mash that I put on a saucer to cool, and that hits room temperature pretty quickly. Temperature affects pH pretty strongly (higher temp = lower apparent pH), so you usually don't want to stick the strip in the hot mash.I have some lactic acid that I use to adjust the pH. Usually, I add two drops to the mash and one drop to the sparge water, but I have very soft water. Water with more ions is usually better buffered, and additions aren't as necessary.

[Big Nake]

I take a sample out of my mash and let it cool to room temperature. Usually it's just a couple drops of the mash that I put on a saucer to cool, and that hits room temperature pretty quickly. Temperature affects pH pretty strongly (higher temp = lower apparent pH), so you usually don't want to stick the strip in the hot mash.I have some lactic acid that I use to adjust the pH. Usually, I add two drops to the mash and one drop to the sparge water, but I have very soft water. Water with more ions is usually better buffered, and additions aren't as necessary.

Ah, I like it. I will take a small amount of the mash juice and put it on a plate, wait a few minutes and then get that onto the colorpHast strip. If it appears too high, I have calcium chloride at the ready. I don't suppose that there are any household products that one could use to lower mash pH, is there? I have no "brewing acids", but I really should pick some up at my LHBS. Cheers & thanks for the tip.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Ah, I like it. I will take a small amount of the mash juice and put it on a plate, wait a few minutes and then get that onto the colorpHast strip. If it appears too high, I have calcium chloride at the ready. I don't suppose that there are any household products that one could use to lower mash pH, is there? I have no "brewing acids", but I really should pick some up at my LHBS. Cheers & thanks for the tip.

why do you need acids? just add gypsum or calcium chloride to raise pH and add chalk or baking soda to lower it. (I may have mixed that up but you get what I mean)

[davelew]

why do you need acids? just add gypsum or calcium chloride to raise pH and add chalk or baking soda to lower it. (I may have mixed that up but you get what I mean)

I find it easier to dispense a drop of acid than to measure out a small amount of powder, but I'm sure both methods work.

[BlKtRe]

Temperature affects pH pretty strongly (higher temp = lower apparent pH), so you usually don't want to stick the strip in the hot mash.

Less than .35 at most with colorfast strips. I question if PH paper can even read that amount accurately. Im betting your in range no matter what temp the strips are read at.PH Linky Poo

[Big Nake]

why do you need acids? just add gypsum or calcium chloride to raise pH and add chalk or baking soda to lower it. (I may have mixed that up but you get what I mean)

Yeah, I think calcium chloride lowers it, IIRC. Zym, I do use calcium chloride, gypsum and magnesium sulfate to adjust water to the color beer I'm making... but I'm doing this according to EZ_Water and I'm clearly missing something because EZ_Water is telling me that my pH should be good and I'm not sure I trust it since my light-colored beers have been ultra-hazy lately. I'm looking forward to making this beer tomorrow and checking the pH of the mash with the strips. If it was high, I would like acid since a little goes a long way, but I could also just add some more calcium chloride, I suppose. Cheers.

[davelew]

Less than .35 at most with colorfast strips. I question if PH paper can even read that amount accurately. Im betting your in range no matter what temp the strips are read at.PH Linky Poo

My rule of thumb is that the economy strips are +/-.6, while the colorphast strips are +/-.3Ignoring the .35 at mash temperatures turns the nice colorphast strips into the cheap economy strips. The 0.35 error only isn't the problem, the problem is that it could be added to all of the other errors. I also don't know what temperature the strip is when combined with 150F wort. It's probably cooler than 150 but warmer than room temperature, and changing while I try to read it. I just think it's easier to test everything at room temperature.

[BrewerGeorge]

My rule of thumb is that the economy strips are +/-.6, while the colorphast strips are +/-.3Ignoring the .35 at mash temperatures turns the nice colorphast strips into the cheap economy strips. The 0.35 error only isn't the problem, the problem is that it could be added to all of the other errors. I also don't know what temperature the strip is when combined with 150F wort. It's probably cooler than 150 but warmer than room temperature, and changing while I try to read it. I just think it's easier to test everything at room temperature.

The problem with your procedure is that the 5.2 target pH is at mash temp. If you realize that and adjust your target, no problem. If not, you're going to be off.

[Big Nake]

The problem with your procedure is that the 5.2 target pH is at mash temp. If you realize that and adjust your target, no problem. If not, you're going to be off.

Oh snap. Do we have a George vs. Dave smackdown? I understand that certain things have to be done at certain temps (like a hydro sample reading, for example... 60°). So what's the deal here? My simple mind tells me that the pH is better read at mash temps because that's the temp the the mash is going to be sitting at for the next 60-90 minutes.

[drewseslu]

How cold and for how long are you cold conditioning/lagering these beers?

[DigitalTaper]

Oh snap. Do we have a George vs. Dave smackdown? I understand that certain things have to be done at certain temps (like a hydro sample reading, for example... 60°). So what's the deal here? My simple mind tells me that the pH is better read at mash temps because that's the temp the the mash is going to be sitting at for the next 60-90 minutes.

Cut your 1st one in half to see how the 154* temp compares to room temperature. Per the company who makes ColorpHast strips, they are optimized to be used at 68*F.https://www.emdchemi...ntSource=PRONETTemperature error. EMD colorpHast® test strips and indicator papers are optimized for 20ºC. At hotter temperatures, theionic nature of water changes and there is a shift in the color range of the indicators. The table below illustrates themagnitude of temperature error for selected indicators.Indicator 18°C (64°F) pH 100°C (212°F) pHMethyl violet___0.1 2.70 0.5 1.7Methyl yellow___2.4 4.00 1.9 2.9Methyl orange___3.2 4.40 2.5 3.7Methyl red______4.2 6.60 4.0 6.04-Nitrophenol___5.0 7.00 5.0 6.5Phenol red______6.8 8.40 7.3 8.3Cresol red__-___7.2 8.80 7.6 8.8Phenolphthalein_8.3 10.0 8.1 9.0Thymolphthalein_9.3 10.5 8.7 9.5

[DigitalTaper]

Readable table

Indicator       18°C (64°F) pH 100°C (212°F) pHMethyl violet___0.1   2.70  0.5   1.7Methyl yellow___2.4   4.00  1.9   2.9Methyl orange___3.2   4.40  2.5   3.7Methyl red______4.2   6.60  4.0   6.04-Nitrophenol___5.0   7.00  5.0   6.5Phenol red______6.8   8.40  7.3   8.3Cresol red______7.2   8.80  7.6   8.8Phenolphthalein_8.3   10.0  8.1   9.0Thymolphthalein_9.3   10.5  8.7   9.5

[Big Nake]

How cold and for how long are you cold conditioning/lagering these beers?

After primary, the beer goes to secondary with a gel solution and sits on my cool basement floor (55-60°) until I have an empty keg. Then it goes to the keg, gets chilled to about 34-35° overnight and is then force carbed over 48 hours and it continues to sit at that temp (in a smaller fridge) until my draft fridge has an opening. This could be 1-2 weeks or it could be 6-8 weeks depending on how long it takes for the 4 beers in the draft fridge to go. So no real specific timeline for anything because ales follow the same schedule. The only difference in the 2 (lagers and ales) is that the lagers ferment in a swamp cooler at 50° and the ales are in the mid-60s. I realize that I might be able to swim past this issue if the beers could sit colder/longer but I don't really have the cold storage to do that. FWIW, the light-colored ales (cream ales, blondes, wheats) suffer from the same haziness as these light-colored lagers. Cheers.

[davelew]

Oh snap. Do we have a George vs. Dave smackdown?

George and I agree on so many things, we had to resort to fighting over how to get an extra 0.3 of accuracy in pH measurements. It really doesn't matter how you do it, but I still think my way is better.

[BrewerGeorge]

George and I agree on so many things, we had to resort to fighting over how to get an extra 0.3 of accuracy in pH measurements. It really doesn't matter how you do it, but I still think my way is better.

Your way is perfectly fine...as long as you're shooting for 5.5 pH instead of 5.2 pH. :blush:Seriously, though, given the .3 range of precision of the strips, and the .3 shift in pH due to temp between mash and 'room' temps, not to mention the subjective nature of judging the colors in fluorescent vs natural light, who knows what the pH of the mash is at any time. Still, you're successfully making beer. I'm successfully making beer. That means we're BOTH doing it right.