51 replies to this topic

[MtnBrewer]

lol, Sounds like it is kind of like aging meat. You cut off the outside layer of ick to get to the aged meat yumminess. Really gross when you think about it.

Pellicles are pretty gross. I just transferred a Flanders Red that had been in primary for about 14 months and getting the pellicle out of the carboy when I was cleaning it just about made me yak.

[djinkc]

With the exceptions of my posts this has been a very informative thread. Nice to see here.

[MtnBrewer]

With the exceptions of my posts this has been a very informative thread. Nice to see here.

True but let's not make it a habit.

[CaptRon]

With the exceptions of my posts this has been a very informative thread. Nice to see here.

Yeah, I'm glad I thought of it!

[djinkc]

True but let's not make it a habit.

I'll do my best. Must be hell getting cranky when you're over 50.

[MyaCullen]

lol, Sounds like it is kind of like ageing meat. You cut off the outside layer of ick to get to the aged meat yumminess. Really gross when you think about it.

mmmm blue hair

[stellarbrew]

I love this type of thread - entertaining and informative...I'm still confused on the issue though.

[MolBasser]

I love this type of thread - entertaining and informative...I'm still confused on the issue though.

What's the question? Let's try to answer it.MolBasser

[MtnBrewer]

I'll do my best. Must be hell getting cranky when you're over 50.

I'll let you know. I'm only 33 right now.in hex

[stellarbrew]

What's the question? Let's try to answer it.MolBasser

I guess Im just trying to reconcile in my mind two seemingly contradictory opinions shared here. Obviously well-learned brewers are saying here that autolysis is a real concern that can show up even in bottle conditioned pale ales in 2 months time, from the yeast sediment in the bottle. Yet other very experienced brewers here are saying that based on their experience, it's not such a great concern, and they have yet to experience it even after the beer is left on a yeast cake for months. And then there is the point someone made that if autolysis can so readily occur, then what about the beers such as strong Belgians that are cellared for years on lees, but apparently get better with age, rather than becoming nasty from autolysis. I'm sure there is an explanation compatible with both points of view, but I can't think of it.

[earthtone]

I think the volume of yeast that is undergoing autolysis factors in here. As Basser hinted at early when he was talking about commercial scale, a large amount of yeast will produce lots of off flavour. If you are cellaring a beer after letting it go through primary, much of the yeast - I would say the majority - has already been left behind. In the case of some getting better from autolysis - I think that is an issue of what "better" means. In some styles, apparently like certain aforementioned white wines, the characteristics of aging on the lees are desirable because they are part of the flavour profile of that style. If you were to cellar a beer that isn't supposed to be cellared it wouldn't benefit the beer because we are defining what is better not on certain flavours being good and certain flavours being bad but under which circumstances which combination of flavours is desirable.

[BrewerGeorge]

I guess Im just trying to reconcile in my mind two seemingly contradictory opinions shared here. Obviously well-learned brewers are saying here that autolysis is a real concern that can show up even in bottle conditioned pale ales in 2 months time, from the yeast sediment in the bottle. Yet other very experienced brewers here are saying that based on their experience, it's not such a great concern, and they have yet to experience it even after the beer is left on a yeast cake for months. And then there is the point someone made that if autolysis can so readily occur, then what about the beers such as strong Belgians that are cellared for years on lees, but apparently get better with age, rather than becoming nasty from autolysis. I'm sure there is an explanation compatible with both points of view, but I can't think of it.

It helps to reconcile the two opinions if you think about the conditions each two groups have to contend with. Homebrewers tend to treat their precious brews as well as possible. Many of us who keg control temperature precisely for the entire time until the beer hits the throat. Commercial brewers have to contend with much less than optimum handling - warm storage especially. I think it has to do with the volume of yeast also, as well as the pressure of the vessel at the bottom. Homebrew 5 gallon vessels have less than 1 psi of pressure bearing down on the yeast mass at the bottom. A 20 ft commercial fermentor has 10 times as much pressure on the yeast mass. I'm not sure this is an issue, but it is certainly a difference between the two methods.