autolysis
#1
Posted 20 May 2010 - 12:50 PM
#2
Posted 20 May 2010 - 01:08 PM
Basically, yeast cells rupture and their guts spill out into your beer. Now your beer tastes like vegemite. Which may be cool if you're an Aussie, but sucks for the rest of the world.Sooo, I know nothing about this subject, what it is, or what it means. Matter of fact I didn't know the word existed until it came up in the 'Green Board' thread. But all of the talk about it has me curious as to what it is.So, lets see what you got. Mtn
#3
Posted 20 May 2010 - 01:15 PM
#4
Posted 20 May 2010 - 01:20 PM
#5
Posted 20 May 2010 - 01:32 PM
That was one reason for sure. The first home brew book I ever latched onto was Dave Miller's Complete Handbook. In it, he drove home the point that ZOMG YOU MUST RACK THE BEER BEFORE AUTOLYSIS SETS IN!! I have to say that it's about the only thing I've ever known of Dave to be wrong about. [And to be fair, he's not really wrong per se, just a little overcautious.]Interesting...So is that where the idea of transferring to a secondary initially came from? To get it off that yeast cake before it starts happening? I can see that, and then the additional clarifying is another benefit.
Yeah, I think a lot of brewers (me included) feel that way. If I'm just doing a "normal" beer that I'm going to keg, I frequently won't bother with secondary. I'll just do a longer primary and then go straight to keg.Honestly, I'm not too sold on the secondary aspect either anymore as I skip secondary altogether nowadays and go right in to keg after primary. Unless I'm going to be reusing the yeast cake then I might move to secondary.
#6
Posted 20 May 2010 - 01:40 PM
I hate racking, so I do primary for 2 weeks, 1 week in the fridge (still in primary), 1 week keg on CO2 for carb now that I have my kegging system.2 or 3 beers ago I left the beer in primary for 6 weeks (in the swamp cooler) and I didn't smell anything bad or get off flavors that I could tell. So i would say it takes some time and a little effort to get autolysis. I think if you disturb the beer and raise the temp you would probably get it a lot easier.Cheers,RichYeah, I think a lot of brewers (me included) feel that way. If I'm just doing a "normal" beer that I'm going to keg, I frequently won't bother with secondary. I'll just do a longer primary and then go straight to keg.
#7
Posted 20 May 2010 - 01:53 PM
#8
Posted 20 May 2010 - 01:53 PM
#9
Posted 20 May 2010 - 01:58 PM
#10
Posted 20 May 2010 - 02:09 PM
#11
Posted 20 May 2010 - 02:11 PM
Reading this, I can only conclude that my impatience is going to help prevent autolysis from being a problem. I'm like a little kid waiting for his birthday to come from the point of heating my strike water until my first pint.The trouble with the autolysis topic is it's subjectivity. Many people have a difficult time identifying the off-flavors produced (which I can only really describe as "organic-decay"). Because of this, there is a lot of autolysis deniers and heated debates surrounding the subject. Bottom line though, autolysis is real. Very much so. Autolysis is the process at work behind the act of aging wine on it's lees to create a vintaged cuvee. If you are serious about brewing and the quality of your beer, then you'll take autolysis seriously as well. It might not be the defining difference between good beer and great beer, but it most definitely plays a factor. Also, just a note. Autolysis is directly tied to volume/surface/contact area with your yeast. Your fermenter shape and size will greatly influence the rate at which the off-flavors are produced. Homebrewing vessels tend to emphasize this problem compared to taller commercial conicals. Homebrewers also generally underpitch and ferment slowly as a result, leaving their beer in contact with their yeast longer, which doesn't help either.
#12
Posted 20 May 2010 - 02:16 PM
Yeah, very good point. Temperature is a major factor. Like most chemical reactions, it happens much faster at higher temps. This may in fact be the reason that people were so paranoid about it back in the bad ol' days. There was much less temperature control then.Temperature has to be a big factor. I keep yeast samples around in the fridge for 6-7 months without doing anything with them sometimes and they've been fine. Also - consider bottles with yeast sediment in them - seem to be fine, even at room temperature. At fridge temps I bet they'll last even longer.
#13
Posted 20 May 2010 - 04:07 PM
#14
Posted 20 May 2010 - 04:12 PM
No, that's not what it means. See some of the above posts for the correct definition.If you mean yeast dying then yes, at some point they do.
#15
Posted 20 May 2010 - 04:14 PM
#16
Posted 20 May 2010 - 04:18 PM
I am not clear as to what it means from this thread or any other thread I've read. The two popular definitions I've seen are:1. Self-cannibalization due to starvation2. Recycling of dead tissue by living tissueAre we going with one of those definitions or something else?No, that's not what it means. See some of the above posts for the correct definition.
#17
Posted 20 May 2010 - 04:20 PM
Those sound pretty similar to me. #2 is just a more PC way of saying #1 (or something).I am not clear as to what it means from this thread or any other thread I've read. The two popular definitions I've seen are:1. Self-cannibalization due to starvation2. Recycling of dead tissue by living tissueAre we going with one of those definitions or something else?
#18
Posted 20 May 2010 - 04:21 PM
Number 1 leads to number 2 is the way I understand it. Now you got me confusedI am not clear as to what it means from this thread or any other thread I've read. The two popular definitions I've seen are:1. Self-cannibalization due to starvation2. Recycling of dead tissue by living tissueAre we going with one of those definitions or something else?
#19
Posted 20 May 2010 - 04:30 PM
#20
Posted 20 May 2010 - 06:39 PM
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